Advice about Nieces & Nephews

Do want you need to do to feel comfortable.  But I would not do anything irrevocable; even though they are legally adults they are not fully-formed human beings.  They might get worse, of course, but they may also get better.  Also, definitely do not tell them (or any of your beneficiaries) about your plans.  

P.S. I probably would not even send them cards at this point. A waste of time/paper/mail.  

When my cousins reached a certain age, my mom decided she would keep sending birthday cards but without money. And this was just because she felt they were adult enough that it was appropriate to no longer send the money (she would only ever send $20 or so); nothing to do with behavior. My mom has a close relationship with my cousins so she wants to still check in (all but one don't live in CA), but didn't think the money was necessary anymore. I think you could keep sending bday cards, otherwise it may seem pretty abrupt, but if you would rather not send money, that's your choice. 

100% your choice to write your will as you see fit; I wouldn’t worry about that aspect of things.  I’m sorry for the trouble they cause you! (& themselves…)

You are under NO obligation to leave money or anything else to these two very ungrateful children.  Leave your money and belongings to who you want to.  Give these girls time and see if with time, they grow up a bit.  I have a nephew who very much acted the same way.  Over time and circumstances he finally grew up and became a much better human being.  You will have to wait and see who they become over time.  If you feel that they do not appreciate you and your husband then just sit back and do nothing.  Life may change them since the "holier than thou" does not work in today's society.  Don't bother sending cards anymore, it does not sound like they appreciate who you both are.  It does not sound like these children have suffered abuse, but really bad parenting.  Does not sound like their parents have ever given a crap of how their children's behavior affects others.  Good luck.  

Just give them more time. They are young. Also, make it equitable. Don’t leave them something to fight over with each other when you are gone. Reassess when they are thirty to consider how much to leave them if anything.  

They sound really awful. For a minute I thought I was reading AITA on Reddit. Definitely change your trust to leave your assets to whoever you want. You can always change it again if your interactions with Veruca I and I improve. You don't have to let any of them know. Hopefully this won't come into play for decades and their personalities will improve for the better before any of this matters.

My thoughts for what they're worth.

Your money is your money. You are free to do with it what you please.

I've expressed this to my parents who have done fairly well for themselves: It's their money. They made it. If they want to leave it all to charity, leave more to my siblings, etc. who am I to have a say?

For you, I think the only thing that might be a consideration is the downstream impact of an uneven split and any family drama it may cause. Ultimately, you'll be gone so you won't have to deal with it, but it is a truth that money and inheritance can cause family rifts. If the family is already strained, the cousins don't really get along or aren't really close, maybe this isn't a very big risk--just something to consider.

I can see why this is such a difficult decision. I’m just writing in to give a little perspective- never have I ever expected an inheritance from anyone- not even my own parents. I’m not sure what expectations have been set up in your family, but maybe ask yourself why you feel you should leave it to family. If it’s a gift- it should come from the heart with no strings. If you can’t do that for these kids, maybe think outside the family? Either way, it’s a big decision for you, and I hope you can table it or make a temporary solution until you get grounded and clear on where or who you really want to pass this generous gift. May you find the answer that gives you peace.

All of your nieces and nephews are adults now so it would not be unreasonable to expect them to take care of themselves.  It sounds like they will not end up on the street if you decide to spend your valuable time and money on other pursuits.  Picking up a new hobby will keep you busy with less time to wonder about what you should or should not be doing with respect to family matters.  You've invested plenty of time in their upbringing and if you aren't the one to point out the errors of their ways, doubtless some random stranger will eventually step in.  That's what I tell my kids and spouse... Do you want to hear it from me or some random stranger?  There may be something else going on, but when they are ready, they will share.  As for your will, well, you can change that as often as you can afford the legal fees.  :D

My advice is the complete opposite of the previous one, but take it if you like. I say: chuck them both OUT. Out of your lives, out of your consciousness. They sound truly horrible. Perhaps they're related to our former president?! The norms and values that you and your husband have tried to instill have fallen on "deaf ears," to say the least. I suggest that you toss them out of your lives, make it legal (they get NOTHING from your estate- and nothing from here on out!), and make it public -if you think that it might provide a wake-up call to these two clueless humans. And take all of your love, intelligence, and resources to lavish on the two who've been raised well and have turned out to be good people. Those are the ones our society needs to encourage and celebrate!

I have met people like this -fortunately, no one I've had to deal with long-term. But one time I did have to deal with one for almost a year. I had a third-grade student like your nieces in my class one year. She seemed to be a burgeoning Narcissist and/or Sociopath. It was scary. She was physically beautiful, rich, and even popular (sort of), but was a horrible, horrible girl. When I finally met the father, I understood. I never did meet the mom (contentious divorce, apparently) but the dad was horrible, too. Also good-looking, he was a total Narcissist and his parenting style was "permissive" and without boundaries. Basically, his two daughters were perfect, everyone else was awful, and please get out of their way. Ugh.

You don't need to announce what your plans are, just do what makes sense for you.  And for sure, the birthday cards and gift giving can cease.  If they never acknowledged or thanked you before, it'd be presumptuous to start complaining to you now.

My two cents: It's kind of you to care about your nieces and wise of you not to do so to the point that it affects you and your family. Breaking ties (not irrevocably) with your nieces might send the message they need to pay more careful attention to the direction where their behavior is heading. Maybe a letter to them explaining your concerns, explaining what effect their way of interacting has on those around them, and suggesting some alternative ways they might find of engaging with their family and friends (online and in person) might help them. Do they have a community or a group of people that they really feel at home with, that they trust and that they can really be themselves with? Maybe joining a sports team or some other kind of activity could help create that space for them? I don't know... But making it clear that they are loved and their voices are heard might also help them understand where you are coming from. It sounds to me like connecting with others is important to them, and they need some guidance doing so more skillfully. Connecting with your sibling (their parent) on these thoughts might also help?

Oh, my. Friend, you owe them nothing. And when you are gone, you won't have to hear about it.... they already have plenty of money. There are allllll kinds of nonprofits who could use your gifts instead; why not give it to them instead? These two sound dreadfully sociopathic. I'm more concerned about their abusing pets and others than the other way around - although it's possible. Even so, they don't need your cash.

You have my sympathy. Our society right now is messed up; children and young adults do not have enough aunties and uncles to provide them with a good-enough  network for comprehensive social guidance.

My frame of reference:  we have only one nephew, who is estranged from our side of the family after my MIL disowned him after he did cruel things that led to his mother's death. We did not spend as much time trying to bond with him as you report having spent with your ungrateful nieces.  We are also in the process of updating our trust (so hard!).

First, let me say that I totally agree with you that it is time to stop giving presents to the ungrateful duo, especially since they are financially well off.  However, I would keep sending them cards to celebrate their birthdays and other special occasions. Even if they never respond with a thank-you or a card on YOUR birthday, from what you have written, you would like to leave the door open for a possible future relationship.

Second, I agree with the previous writer that it would be appropriate to follow up on your inclination to leave them little or nothing in your will and trust. Do not discuss the terms of this with any of your nieces or nephews, or any other heirs.  One thing that our family has learned from experience is that one should not assume that the trust is a "forever" plan. It should address the way things are currently, for a five-year time horizon.  After five years, things will certainly change, and you will need to revise the trust. That's one of the reasons why the terms should be kept confidential unless someone has a need to know, or your demise is imminent.

Right now, these young people are behaving badly, and - perish the thought something were to happen to you - they might understand why they are not inheriting from you.  Perhaps they would be clued in by their cousins.

Finally, sometimes individuals who are egotistical, angry, or mean when they are age 20 might improve greatly by the time they are 30. Let's hope that is true for your nieces.  Maybe then the memories of all those birthday cards (without gifts) and the fun times they had with you when they were small children will bring them to want to re-create a relationship with you.

Sometimes the people we watched grow up turn out to be jerks as adults. We saw this coming with my nephew. I hope that your nieces will improve with age.

Wishing you the best.

I would not write them out of the will. My maternal grandmother left everything to one child and the family ended up in court. The siblings never spoke to each other again. My paternal grandmother had clear favorites, but she left everyone the exact same amount and there was no acrimony, which meant everyone could grieve the way they needed to. I would either divide your estate equally among the four, or give it all to someone/thing outside the family. In life, I don’t think you need to spend time with people who make you unhappy. If they mature, perhaps they will seek to re-establish the relationship. 

They are still really young!! And they may well mature into more admirable human beings.

But of course the point of estate planning is to be prepared in case something happens to you and your partner now! I think leaving everything to the well-behaved niblings is appropriate, but maybe add a note that you leave with your estate documents that you are doing so because you believe Veruca 1 and 2 will have more financial security/less need (so as to minimize resentment/tension among the cousins).

Then be sure to review your estate plan every five years to make changes as needed. 

Sorry you are going through this!

Of course you don't owe them anything and can do whatever you want but... I have a few comments. It will be deeply hurtful and the lasting legacy if you leave all your money to the other 2 and not to them as punishment over their behavior at age 18 & 21. I think this hit home because I would have been included in the ideal type of kid in my teens, polite, overly worried about everyone else and not myself. I changed in my early 20s largely due to feeling abandoned by my mother (parents divorced) and dealing with my father's sexual harassment and inappropriate touching all alone. As it wasn't obvious to others, people were perplexed and even angry I wasn't the nice little demur person I was before. I know this isn't your situation exactly but like you write, you aren't quite sure what has happened at home and suspect at least some lack of good parenting. It's not like you were a distant relative who rarely sees them but you have actually been so generous and attempted to be involved relation - which is so wonderful!  But this will make your decision psychologically devastating to them, as if you love was never real, as if it is all conditional and your attachment to them meant nothing, and it is such a harsh judgement on a young person that they will have to live with their whole lives, that the final word of the Aunt they thought loved them was to punish them. Again I know it's your money but it is such a deeply painful idea. One idea would be to include a letter to them each, that you loved them which is why you leave them this but that you have been concerned over the attitude and wish they would use this money in part to explore why they act this way, or that it isn't good for the soul to behave this way and you wish for them to become the kinder people you know they are capable of being and that you say this out of love and concern for them. Just a thought.  

It is true that they can change as they get older, but for now you could change beneficiaries, if later you want to include them you change it again... I guess there will be a cost to do that... that being said, my uncle left everything to my sister. he felt an affinity with her and though she could use his assets better. I was more organized and was married, etc etc. I did not care, he was right, she needs more assets than I . It does not matter because they will have to get upset with you after you are gone...and maybe they don't deserve what you have. Just don't tell anyone...

Consider more charitable giving? We are. There is so much entrenched inequality in the world. I think you can create much more positive reverberations by realizing you are not obligated. The gratitude of those you affect will be deep & genuine. For now, your generosity to your nieces is likely to just be a number added to their not-so-empty bank account.  

Sending the birthday cards without the money and not spending time with them will send a message. Perhaps they do care and will reach out. 

Best wishes.

I can resonate with this, as my kids are 16, 19 and 21, and I am shocked and appalled at how rude and inconsiderate they can be, even though I raised them to be anything but that.  Kids between 16 and 22 are very often NOT their best selves.  They are finding out who they are, and sometimes turn into complete A$$holes as they go through the process.  I divorced my kids' father when my eldest was 18.  She has been basically estranged from me since then, though we were once the closest pair of the family.  But I truly believe she'll come around.  Don't base your legacy and lifetime decisions on the behavior of kids this age.  Be fair.  Give them the benefit of the doubt.  They will likely grow up to be much better adults than they are teens.