Questions from a potential NYC transplant

Albany is just north of Berkeley and is very walkable, family friendly, and safe. Many parts of North Berkeley and Berkeley Hills are also safe and family friendly. Hills are obviously not as walkable but beautiful. It'd be helpful to know your budget. Elmwood neighborhood (ah... one of our dream neighborhoods...) and surrounding North Berkeley neighborhoods and areas near Claremont hotel are very lovely to walk around. I feel very safe in that area and our child does camps and after school activities in that area. Kensington is also a nice and safe area. If you don't mind a hilly area, Hiller Highlands in Oakland is a safe area with an amazing view of the bay and a short drive to UC Berkeley. 

We have lived in Oakland near the Piedmont/Oakland border for 20 years and have not encountered gun violence or seen dead bodies. We see homeless people and mentally ill people from time to time. Our car windows have been broken a couple of times in the BART parking lot in West Oakland and on the street in San Francisco. We do have neighbors whose garage has been broken into and whose expensive bike / tools have been stolen once in a while. 

CA public schools do not support accelerated learning. If you are lucky, you might get a teacher who can differentiate. But, in four years in public school, we only encountered one teacher who was willing to provide more challenging materials. We switched our child to a private school because they were very bored and checked out. UC Berkeley has a wonderful advanced math program for kids who love math (Berkeley Math Circle). My kid did it for a while and enjoyed it. We couldn't make the logistics work to continue the program, and our current school offers advanced math curriculum / club. 

If you're interested in and able to afford a private school in Berkeley, Black Pine Circle and The Academy School both have a reputation of supporting advanced kids. 

I’d suggest an extended visit. Reading through your post, I’m honestly not sure Berkeley (and environs) would be a good fit for you! Come for a visit, explore different neighborhoods at different times of day, The reasons people choose to,live here should become clearer when you see it first hand - enjoy! Oh, and watch out for those “dead bodies in the street”! 😉

Hi! Good luck with these big decisions! Have you considered Alameda? A little further from UC Berkeley, but not a bad commute (can bus/BART or short drive). Very walkable neighborhoods, great beaches, biking, socioeconomically diverse, and overall feels safe. I wouldn’t go walking around at midnight-not because of safety concerns, it’s just a sleepy island late at night and not much open.

As far as accelerated classes in schools, we’ve been really impressed with AUSD. The in-district schools all seem wonderful, and there’s two great public charter schools. That’s the route we’ve gone-initially for location convenience- but my previously charter-averse self has been immensely impressed by the school!

Sending good thoughts as you navigate this.

Hi!  We used to live in Manhattan, then in London, then in Marin and now here in Oakland.  We have three kids who are older than yours at this point (12, 14, 16).  Here is what I would say. 1) we left Marin, though we love it, because we were craving more of an urban lifestyle, diversity, and walkability.  Several neighborhoods in Berkeley and Oakland offer this - Piedmont - which you mention, does not.  2) With urban living, the rate of crime does tend to increase, though our experience has been fairly safe. 

We live in Rockridge and can walk to Markethall, Bart, and several restaurants and shops.  We love it here.  I think it's the closest I can get to Brooklyn on the west coast.  We've not had any issue with crime - but that is not to say that others haven't.  I do think that most of the crime is robbery - and is not dangerous, per se, but everyone can have a different definition of their own comfort level.  

I love so many things about this place, though I find many annoying too - but overall, the only other place I would consider living is back in London.  There are many private schools that can help with math acceleration - and if you are really excited, there is 'russian math' offered at Berkeley where I find kids are challenged at college level. The things I find annoying is the cost of living / housing, etc.  I don't spend much time thinking about crime as I can't control it and also don't plan on moving out of the area.  And I love the area, weather and access to so many incredible destinations.  Good luck!  

And I completely agree with the previous person who answered the question.  Also Black Pine Circle and the Acadamy are both excellent and know for their advanced math programs.  

Congratulations on the offer! I spent nine years in NYC and left for graduate school in Europe then CA very reluctantly, always planning to come back. It took a while, but I now can’t fathom leaving CA and as much as I still love New York,  when what would have been my dream job (Columbia, bullseye my field) got publicized a few years back, I didn’t even contemplate applying—wouldn’t trade the weather, access to nature, and overall way of life in the East Bay.

That said, the things that make this place great also make it different. As a family person, you’re simply not likely to be walking around at midnight; the last restaurants closes at like 9:30 (yup). Walkability is awesome, but expect to be walking different places (like, sometimes, a hiking trail 10 feet from your door). I agree with the person above who wrote to expect property crime (theft, smashed windows), and indeed if I think of my many adventures riding the subway in mini dresses in deep Brooklyn at 3 am without giving it a second thought then yes, from that perspective you will not feel that safe. But, in truth, one of the (sad) reasons the situation here has gone south for so long is that it really doesn’t directly affect upper middle class and affluent voters all that much directly.

Public schools here are tricky to navigate, but the ethos, generally, is egalitarian in mostly not great ways. My kids are in private schools and I still signed them up for Berkeley Math Circle next year. 

I’d recommend looking into Piedmont, in addition to the places mentioned in the other responses. It’s super safe and probably the best school system on this side of the tunnel.  On the other side (Lafayette, Orinda, Moraga, Walnut Creek) it’s both strong school systems and extremely safe—but it is (and feels like) the burbs.

Good luck!

Albany is on the northern border of Berkeley.  I just moved from Oakland to Albany with an immature teenage girl, and we feel very safe here.  Everything you want in walking or biking distance, including BART and buses.  And the school is excellent.

Dead bodies? Really? Sounds like an exaggeration. As with any city, you need street smarts, which it sounds like you have. Plenty of safe neighborhoods in Berkeley. I live in a very walkable area in West Berkeley and love it. I don't find Piedmont or San Ramon to be walkable and I would not live in either city (I grew up in the East Bay). There is a lot of car theft in Berkeley - just lock your car, put on a club, and park in your garage or driveway if possible. It mostly happens at night or early morning, at least in my neighborhood. I don't really feel unsafe, but I also don't walk around alone at night, which Cal kids often do. They are often preyed upon because of expensive electronics and lack of street smarts. As for Berkeley public schools, they do not have accelerated programs until high school, and that's in the form of AP or IB classes. If you're looking at a teaching job at Cal, I would consider the move. Anything else, I would stay put to be honest (I say this as a UC employee). 

Two websites to look at for what living in Berkeley is like are Berkeleyside and Berkeley Scanner, two news organizations that report on the city. Berkeley Scanner is more crime-based, but both give you somewhat of a snapshot. Berkeleyside even publishes a constantly-updated gunfire map.I have lived in Berkeley for decades and have never seen a dead body on the street, although many homeless people sleeping or passed out. It's hard to tell what people view as safe-- graduate students from non-urban upbringings might see all passed-out homeless people as "dead bodies." The crime that predominates are things like: catalytic converter thefts, coordinated thefts at big stores like REI, Apple, etc, and laptops being stolen at cafes. 

Regarding schools, no public schools in Berkeley do any kind of accelerated curriculum until 9th grade math (and there's currently a push in the school board to get rid of that). If you are looking for accelerated curriculum, you'd have to spring for private school. Best wishes with your decision.

I've lived in Berkeley for decades and I can tell you it is undeniably more dangerous than it used to be. But the particular way it's dangerous is different from how you might expect. In many large cities one knows that there are some areas that are not safe to walk in alone or at night and other areas that are safe pretty much all of the time. This makes it easy to make educated choices about where to go based on how much risk you are okay with.  

In Berkeley, on the other hand, the crime (armed car-jacking at gas stations and in parking lots, catalytic converter theft, laptop and phone thefts at cafes, home break-ins, armed bike-jacking) is both ubiquitous and completely random. There are no defined "bad" areas. You could spend 30 years here (as I have) and not experience a single one of these incidents. But these incidents are taking place most everyday, randomly, in both the hills and the flats. You can't manage the situation by choosing a "good" location.  It's sort of like earthquakes. They are going to happen but you can't predict when or where. 

Oakland and Richmond are a different story. There are definitely parts of those towns that are reliably unsafe all the time. On the other hand I think "dead bodies on the street" is a bit of a stretch. We are not stepping over dead bodies as we shop and I have never seen or heard of anyone who has run across one—except, I suppose, the police department who gets called when a homeless person has died (technically "on the street" I guess).

Safety wise I don’t think there’s a big difference from New York. There are safe and “unsafe” neighborhoods here - similar to NYC. It is however very suburban compared to NY and it is normal to have zero people walking on the street at any given time of day. For that reason it can feel less safe.  Somewhere like Piedmont is safe, but also a rich white suburb vibe. I would also consider Albany safe and it’s much more walkable. Cost of living is very high here so make sure you are looking at the sold prices for homes rather than the listing price and your home insurance is likely to be $5k a year in the current market. Getting a rental is very competitive. California public schools do not offer gifted programming and overall quality and budget is much, much worse than NYC.  The dead body thing seems very odd - I’ve been here 7 years and never seen anything like that or heard of anyone else having that experience. We were in Brooklyn for 15 years prior. My Bay Area cons: public schools, cost of living, boring suburban vibe, mediocre restaurants. Pros: incredible weather, easily accessible nature of all types, easy transportation- can drive/bike to most places in less than 10 mins, usually easy to park, if you can afford a walkable neighborhood that is a huge plus but super $$$.  

Wow, how times have changed when Berkeley is more dangerous than Manhattan! I agree that Albany could be good to look at. Piedmont is also considered a safe enclave, though not really walkable. I live in Upper Rockridge and walk at night in the neighborhood but it is not a "walkable" area in that there isn't much in walking distance. I probably wouldn't walk alone at night in some other parts of Oakland. I have lived in the East Bay for 40 years and never heard of someone seeing dead bodies around Berkeley!! What?? We have had things taken from cars when we didn't lock them...My son goes to UC Berkeley and hasn't had any issues though this summer someone got into an office and took a phone. 

The news about Berkeley crime is much exaggerated. North Berkeley, Thousand Oaks (the area near Solano Avenue), and Albany are all reasonably safe. On the other hand, students are probably the best advisors about crime near campus. For walkable neighborhoods Berkeley, Montclair (in Oakland) and College Avenue are probably your best bets. Piedmont does not have stores, so you would need to walk either to Piedmont Avenue or Grand Avenue which depending how high up the hill you lived could take quite a while. San Ramon is deep suburbia, and you would need a car for almost every errand. My child went to the Berkeley Schools and was able to be pretty independent in terms of going to school and activities on their own by middle school. 

In terms of acceleration in math, most people around here sign their children up for ATDP (throuch Cal in the summers) or Berkeley Math Circle. You are correct in that the schools do not provide tracked classes until high school, unlike New York which I believe begins tracking in kindergarten. Generally the teachers are able to work with advanced students -- and given how may Cal people have children in BUSD, there are many advanced students. In my child's K cohort, students ended up at pretty much all of the Ivies, as well as the UCs, so whatever the schools/teachers/families were doing it worked out.

I don't want to dissuade you from the job, but I think you need to be very realistic - the inner East Bay is seriously crime ridden at the moment and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Just 5 years ago it was very different. We have lived in Upper Rockridge next to Piedmont/Montclair for 14 years, and I am born and raised in the Bay Area. I am shocked at the level of violence, theft, open drug use, and massive homelessness that we encounter every day. My neighborhood is filled with multimillion dollar homes and my neighbors are engineers, doctors, and CEOs - meaning, it is everywhere. I have never seen a dead body but I and my child passed by people overdosing from Fentanyl ALMOST EVERY morning on the way to HS (Oakland Tech). There are all these "sideshows." 14 people were just shot at Lake Merritt during a community event. The drug stores and Targets around here have armed guards in flak jackets (really, all of them) due to rampant shoplifting - and the shelves are often empty. TJs on College Ave has closed for 24 hrs twice due to major break ins. Berkeley and Oakland are equally bad in my observation - my child just turned down Cal for this reason. We just returned from a visit to NYC and were surprised by how safe we felt walking at night. It is NOT safe to walk the streets here after about 9-10 pm, partly because the streets are much darker, less people, the population density is so much lower. I still go out in downtown Oakland or Berkeley, but I always Uber bc cars are broken into incessantly - walk around and check out how many piles of broken glass you see. It is crazy and unlike anything I have experienced in my entire life of living here. If you can't afford to live in a high end area like Kensington, the Berkeley Hills or my neighborhood, I'd think hard. I am sure that people will rebut this but I strongly encourage you to come out for a few days and just do everything you imagine you'd do as residents - drive past the encampments, drive to the schools you think you'd be zoned for, call the police departments and ask specific questions. Walk around at night and decide for yourself.

As i NYC transplant myself I can say that I personally feel absolutely safe in Berkeley at all hours of the day or night. As teens, my children walk the streets of Berkeley at midnight. I would urge you to visit the area yourself and see first-hand the Berkeley (and surrounding area) neighborhoods where faculty and staff live. There are several neighborhoods that are easily walkable to campus, shopping, and transportation. The public schools in Berkeley are generally strong, and students from Berkeley High school are represented at all the top Universities.  There are also some excellent independent  schools including some known for being strong in math and science (Black Pine Circle).  Berkeley is generally a beautiful, walkable, family-friendly, diverse, and safe urban area with excellent food. See for yourself.

I’ve lived for 15+ years in north Berkeley, and I’ve definitively noticed a decline in public safety (for everyone, not just wealthier residents), especially since 2000. I feel much safer walking around after dark in NYC than around here. Here the streets are pretty empty at night, so missing the safety of foot traffic. People do get mugged. Since 2000, I’ve seen it happen occasionally during the day, and even in busy areas. 

Albany is quieter, less diverse, and farther from Bart, but it’s lower in crime and has excellent public services for residents. Same with Piedmont. I’m not sure anyone’s out walking around at midnight, though, and these are small towns with small town feel. No residential part of the Bay is comparable to NYC in that way. The trade off is the ready access to incredible natural beauty, the amazingly delicious locally-grown food, and the generally easier weather. I wish we could have it all, though!

I live in Berkeley and work at UC Berkeley. There is a big difference between parts of Oakland (say, East Oakland) and Richmond, and Berkeley--look at a map to see how far apart these places are. In general, Berkeley is pretty safe, though of course some neighborhoods (Elmwood, already mentioned, or the Hills, or Thousand Oaks) are even safer than others. There are more petty crimes in and around campus but still gun violence is very rare and dead bodies (!) even more rare. I have never seen someone with a gun or heard a gunshot. It is true that, sadly, if you go into the Tenderloin in SF you might see a person who has died from an overdose on the sidewalk. I am very surprised that any graduate student would claim they've seen dead bodies--and if they have, I would strongly assume they're talking about drug overdoses rather than murder from gun violence. I would also caveat this by saying that Berkeley is extremely expensive so there are sometimes grad students who live far out, not in Berkeley, and therefore might be in a more sketch area. 

Car thefts and break-ins are a big problem in the Bay Area, though much more common I've found in Oakland and SF than in Berkeley. We did have our catalytic converter stolen once, but that was an annoyance, not particularly scary as we weren't even there. There are also definitely unhoused people around and many of them are struggling with mental illness--but I know from friends living in NYC that they also frequently encounter those people there so I don't think it will be a huge change for you.

I think sometimes when you're used to living in a place like Manhattan, walking around at midnight will feel scary here because there just isn't anyone around compared to being in a big city. But on the other hand, there's almost nothing open here that late so not sure why you would ever be walking at that hour! 

Piedmont is very safe generally--although ironically, I think home breakins are more common there than in Berkeley, just because there's so much concentrated wealth that it becomes a target. And Piedmont is much more likely to crack down on unhoused folks so you wouldn't encounter them as much. It's not particularly walkable though. San Ramon would be a pretty rough commute to Berkeley so I would strongly recommend against that. It's also extremely suburban and not walkable in any way (though you can go to a big outdoor mall at Bishop Ranch which is pleasant and walk around there). 

I find feelings about safety to be quite subjective. Our local newspaper maps out gun violence statistics here - perhaps that will help you picture where and how often these are happening. https://www.berkeleyside.org/2024/06/10/2024-berkeley-gunfire-map. You can also find lots of crime statistics on sites like Niche, usually broken down by neighborhood or suburb. I think it would be worth comparing stats with your current neighborhood as a reference point.

As you can see from the map, gun violence does happen Berkeley; I would not say that it's terrifying to me, but it happens. Personally I have never seen a dead body on the street resulting from gun violence. I suspect that the grad students had seen bodies resulting from overdoses or car accidents? Even if that's the case, I'm a bit surprised to hear this from "several" students. We do have ambulances and police that would respond if there were a dead body, they are not just piling up in the streets. Getting a handle on some stats vs. anecdotes would probably help you think about this.

Unfortunately there's a general tradeoff between safety, walkability, and affordability.

I moved to the Bay Area from NYC in 2019 to be near family. We live in a "nice" area of Oakland and go to Berkeley frequently (my husband worked there for several years). While we have not encountered dead bodies, we have dealt with car break-ins and thefts and nearby shootings and I haven't felt nearly as safe as I did in the 16 years I lived in NYC (in Bed-Stuy, Cobble Hill, Harlem and Red Hook among other neighborhoods). Oakland has more issues than Berkeley for sure but personally I would need a REALLY good reason to move from NYC if I had to do it again. I am not sure it was worth it. I do not feel safe here at night because of the gun violence all around us and lackluster response from police. I would not even consider walking outside at midnight. It wasn't like this when we first moved here but it's been awful since the pandemic. 

I moved from Brooklyn to Berkeley ten years ago to go to grad school at Cal. The most unnerving thing for me was how quiet the streets were at night, it felt like everything closed by 8pm and no one was outside! I have since lived in several neighborhoods in Oakland and now live in West Berkeley. When we lived in east Oakland there were sometimes gun shots at night, not often, usually around holidays when people were partying. The car culture can feel kinda lawless, people speed down residential streets and sideshows are fairly common. I have never experienced any threats of violence and have definitely never seen a dead body - maybe those grad students all saw the same dead body, or saw someone who had nodded out. I have seen plenty of broken car windows, but have only had by window busted once when I first moved here. 

West Berkeley has been awesome - super walkable, a ton of great parks/playgrounds, markets, bars, cafes, etc. I definitely recommend looking at the neighborhoods in the flats rather than the hills if you want to be able to walk/bike around easily with your kids. I have yet to feel unsafe as a pedestrian walking around anywhere in Berkeley. The infrastructure is well designed to force cars to go slow, which is great. 

The Bay is very, very different from NYC is every way. But all the crime stories are super exaggerated and I would recommend some skepticism. You are going to be impressed with the natural beauty and abundant produce, and very unimpressed with the fashion and bagels. 

1. I moved my family out of Oakland due to the increase crime. We lived in a decent neighborhood but that did not mean we were not exposed to the violence, unhoused communities, drugs and crime. Neighbors robbed at gun point, mail theft, car theft. Definitely felt hypervigilant walking with our son outside taking a simple walk around the block. We lived in Oakland over 20 years and it felt unsafe (for us) so we left.  Super hard decision cuz we love Oakland but where we are now feels way safer and we are no longer constantly looking over our shoulder. 
   
   Crime is every where, even in the cities you mention. 
   
   Can’t tell you what to do but if you have a good thing in New York I would stay. 
   
   Our son is in preschool so cannot speak to the schools but again, in regards to Oakland the district sucks and we would’ve moved eventually to find a better learning environment. 

We moved after 15.5 years from the Upper West Side of Manhattan to Berkeley in March 2020 (2 weeks before the pandemic lockdowns) to Central Berkeley.

The crime here and in the surrounding areas are worse than NYC. No doubt, hands down. We've had multiple shootings in and around our block (look into Berkeleyside's crime and shooting heat map for neighborhood specific details) as well as car break-ins. We love Oakland nightlife (better than SF) but our car has suffered from smash and grabs. My wife and I often comment on how NYC was never as bad as the Bay Area in terms of crime, theft, and burglaries (homelessness and mental illness on trains is pretty much the same).

With that said, we've made an amazing community here of parents and friends. We just opt to not venture to certain areas with our car when break-ins are a concern (we rather bike). I continue to hem and haw about whether the move was right (we too moved for a job here) as we do miss NYC, but then again that city in subsequent visits isn't nearly the same as it was pre-COVID. Grass is always greener?

In terms of neighborhoods, the Berkeley and Oakland hills and even Elmwood (our fav) along with neighboring Rockridge – as lovely as they are – are having MAJOR homeowner's insurance issues due to wildfire precautions and state insurance regulations. Buying a home is becoming near impossible in those areas which is why many are for sale. You also don't want to go any farther West than San Pablo Ave IMO because of the Amtrak train noise at all hours of the day (trust me on this as you can hear the trains even in Downtown Berkeley). When factoring in all those issues, Berkeley as very, very limited housing options. North Berkeley pretty much tops the list, and I would say Albany if you like small homes. Even with high interest rates, expect 3 bedroom/2 bath single family houses at 1500 square feet to easily start at $1.5 million in the area. We are also considering Piedmont which has regular size homes, more value, and an amazing school district. Although Berkeley schools are top reason many tech folks migrated from SF. They are diverse racially and socioeconomically and Berkeley high is seen as top rated amongst the Ivys and the like.

One last item of note. Traffic is absolutely horrific here. Sometimes I can get to downtown SF in 20min by car, other times over an hour. Venturing too far from Berkeley will make your work commute very unnerving and long. I wouldn't go beyond Walnut Creek/Lafayette/Orinda neighborhoods if venturing out of Berkeley proper. 

I’m sorry, do you actually believe there are dead bodies just lying around the streets of Berkeley? 

Most likely they just saw passed out homeless people. 

If you are open to a private school, check our Proof School in San Francisco. We live in Elmwood in Berkeley and our child attended Proof School for 6th-12th grade (just graduated). Kids travel from all over the Bay Area to attend Proof and most take public transportation. We highly recommend the school for kids who love math.

I don’t often post but just had to jump in to address the first part of this! I’ve lived in Berkeley for nearly 15 years, rented in north and south Berkeley, and now own a home in central Berkeley with my spouse, who is a professor at UC Berkeley, and our toddler. 

I don’t know New York well but I suspect someone considering the opposite move could easily replace the words Oakland and Richmond in your post with cities in greater NYC and write the exact same paragraph. In short, yes, some parts of the East Bay have more crime and violence, but there are also so many areas you could feel safe walking around alone in at midnight. North Berkeley, Berkeley Hills, Albany are some neighborhoods I really never think about personal safety in, let alone gun violence. In central and south Berkeley I feel at ease into the night while people are around, though when things empty out around 10/11pm I am more aware of my surroundings at night—not feeling unsafe, just aware, as one should be in most cities. There are plenty of neighborhoods in Oakland that are enjoyable and vibrant into the late evening, and others best avoided. As with any other major metropolitan area, scary stories surface, but for those of us lucky enough to have choice in where we live and spend our time, daily life feels safe and you’ll learn over time which areas to be more cautious around or avoid.

The claim that multiple graduate students had seen dead bodies on the streets sounds simply ludicrous to me. The visibility of people living on the streets is certainly high, and it’s distressing to see how normalized it is for people to be passed out and uncared for lying on the streets. Given the high rates of fentanyl and other drug use, I’ve often heard people comment “they could be dead and I wouldn’t know” when walking past someone asleep or unconscious on the sidewalks. But in my experience, the notion that daily life in Berkeley might include the possibility of stumbling upon a the dead body, particularly one dead from gun violence, is outlandish. 

Unfortunately crime travels. My attorney brother lives in one of the most elite neighborhoods in the Berkeley hills and his next-door neighbor was held up at gunpoint during the middle of the day and her car taken.  All neighborhoods have incidents.  I'm a long-time Berkeley person and a UC Berkeley graduate. I know many all across the country in many states and crime has exponentially increased. If we had a choice, we'd go back to Toronto where I grew up.  The problem is that Toronto is now one of the ten most expensive cities in the world to live in. Difficult choices.  Berkeley is a lovely place however. I grew up in New York and there is a ton of crime there too.

Orinda, Moraga and Lafayette are all nice neighborhoods and have reasonable commutes to Berkeley.  Each community has its own charm and unique features (restaurants, access to hiking trails, community events) but will be considerably quieter, suburban/WUI (wildland-urban interface) than Manhattan with coyotes, turkeys and deer being not uncommon sites on neighborhood streets.  Moraga, in general, has more sidewalks than Orinda and (some areas) of Lafayette. All the schools are good but like someone else pointed out, not a lot of opportunities for acceleration for math until middle school where some kids are put into an accelerated path to allow them to take geometry as high school freshman.  Good luck in your (job opportunity) decision!

question 2: A bit far out, but Berkeley High has an IB program, which I've heard described by genius friends who went through it as "harder than college". It is sure to challenge your child once they are older.

question 1: If you live in Manhattan, you're going to be pretty disappointed by the suburbs further out. Some NYC transplants I've met even think SF is like a tiny fishing village in comparison, and that's the biggest city we've got out here, so "further out" will probably feel like a total wasteland to you. Berkeley is a gem in the bay, I'd recommend living here if you can afford it. I've traveled the world and chose to live in NW Berkeley because it feels like it has the advantages of the cities I've loved, but less downsides (mild weather, closer to nature, walkable city amenities yet comparably less violence/crime, thriving intellectual community but less frenzied by the hedonic treadmill). As you're familiar with in Manhattan, there's micro-neighborhood pockets of sanctuary. On my streets all the neighbors know each other and help each other out, the kids know each other and some freely roam on foot and bike within a couple mile radius with blessings from their parents. At the swimming pool I see people park their very nice mountain bikes with a wimpy wire that could be cut in 2 seconds. Within 5-20 minutes I can walk to 5 grocery stores, several parks, and maybe 50 restaurants. I wear flip flops most of the year. I love it here. Try it out!

Several people have made comparisons in crime frequency and severity between Berkeley and NYC in this thread. My family is visiting New York this week and on yesterday’s (7/16) evening news was a story that a woman in Central Park had had her cellphone taken from her in a strong arm robbery and the police were looking for the suspect. No weapon was used, the woman was not identified, and the woman was unharmed. Such an event would receive no coverage in the Bay Area, it’s simply too common there. And no, there is not Oakland/Berkeley-level crime “everywhere”.

I just want to thank everyone for the extremely thoughtful and useful replies. We have a much better sense now of both the joys and the risks of the area. Of course, we have read with particular interest the comparisons by those who moved from NYC. 

We will most likely be visiting with the family in a few weeks. Schoolwise, we hope to visit Black Pine Circle and The Academy School. We already did a virtual tour with GATE Academy but we understand that that would be a painful commute in either direction?

The Academy is high achievement across the board. Black Pine Circle has strong math specialists and a good math team, and many strengths in music and social and emotional learning. GATE Academy, like other gifted-friendly schools, schedules math first thing in the day, to children of different math abilities to take math outside of their grade. For later, it may be worth looking at Proof and CPS. Another option worth considering is a music or bilingual school (e.g., Crowden, EB, EBI, Shu Ren, EBGIS). As radical math acceleration is not common in Berkeley schools, some families combine Berkeley Math Circle with AoPS courses and other opportunities outside of school, and select a school that allows kids individualized math.