Is parenthood like High School all over again?

It sounds like you might be reacting to a particular incident that wasn't included in your post? I see a lot of blame being directed at people who may not be spending very much time thinking about the same interactions you're stewing over, and some comments about how much more mature you are than the rest of them. I also see myself. I spent a lot of my kid's early school years thinking about how mean and cliquish the other parents were, and feeling excluded and angry in just the way you describe, and belittling other parents because I was hurt and all those painful childhood memories were flooding back.You know what? With a few years hindsight I see that some parents actually were mean and cliquish, like some people have been in every community I remember being a part of, but many were not. I see now my own feelings of pain, hostility and superiority led me to overlook potential friends and poison many relationships. Have you tried volunteering? Really, if you're helping pull the weight at school, most people will be grateful and willing to accept you for who you are regardless of how you dress or what your variety of nerdiness is. (I'm not sure what you mean about being perceived as less "woke," though -- if you mean that you've said some things that others took to be bigoted, it might be beneficial for you to consider whether they have a point.) Once elementary is over, there aren't a lot of other chances to make parent friends. Also, the flip side of cliquishness is that the people you call bullies because they exclude you are friends with a whole lot of other people, and if you think you've been cast out and make that an excuse to treat some people badly, or if you let yourself think of them in the disparaging terms you use in your post and that seeps into your personal interactions, it's easy for cast-out to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. This is probably not news to many people, but I'm the poster child for social awkwardness, and it wasn't until years later that I realized that I'd given myself a deservedly bad reputation because of how my own hurt feelings led me to behave. I don't mean to co-opt your story, and I don't mean to discount your feelings or your experience. What you're going through sounds awful. I only hope hearing my experience helps you respond to it more productively than I was able to.

Yes there is - it's HackerMoms.  =)  I've rarely seen such an accepting and supportive group of women regardless of your parenting style.  Check out our site and come to an open house - we'd love to meet you.

https://hackermoms.org/

--Wendy

People don't change. The mean girls from high school are mean moms now. I find them to be incredibly boring. I don't let the rejection bother me as I didn't like these chicks in high school and I don't like them now. I've made very few friends at my daughter's school. It's not because I don't want friends but because I just don't have a lot to talk about with any of these people. However, I seem to make one real friend every year through either school or sports and that's enough for me. 1 good friend is much better than 15 flakes.

Some of the other moms perceive those women as being witchy, I prefer to see them as boring. 

I've been around Albany schools for almost 20 years and have not had this experience.  I don't know about other schools, though!

People can still behave hurtfully as adults, yes, but they can also fail to recognize their own role in social dynamics.   Volunteer, join the PTA, pitch in, and you will get to know people.  Some people may be closer with one another than they are with you, but that doesn’t mean they don’t like you, too. There are many levels of friendship.   Also, notice if you tend to engage through complaints. I can think of one parent who may feel this way around the more involved parents, but she repeatedly opens interactions with criticism and complaint about how events are being run, etc, and it is very offputting to the people who have been working hard on these things.  If she had first put in the time, and then gently brought up suggestions, she would be well received.  No one cares about her clothes or coolness.  She just doesn’t think about other people’s feelings, only her own. As for myself,  I have some close parent friends but not as many as some other people who’ve volunteered as much as I have.  I can see, however, that this due to my own distancing behavior related to mild, intermittent depression.   I feel okay about it, because the people who have tons of friends have more energy and really are more fun than I am.  I feel like it is proportional to what I put out into the social universe.   And I can’t really tend to that many different friendships at once — some people can.  I’m grateful for those I have, and try to take care of them.   Be a friend to have a friend, etc...Good luck!

I am guessing that if you are feeling shut out, other people are too. Why not try finding others that seem friendless and befriend them? 

The only time I remember feeling this way about my kids' school was during a summer session. All the other parents knew each other from the regular school year, and I was the newcomer. I think that they were not really unfriendly to me. They were just really friendly with the people they already knew, and I didn't see a way to break in. It was just for a few weeks, so I didn't sweat it. But I was glad when it was over and did not go back. 

I'm sorry you are having such a harrowing experience as a parent.  Defining oneself as a person, as a parent, is very hard and it can feel just like high school all over again.  It sounds like you are at a vulnerable point in your life, as many are as parents.  I encourage you to explore your feelings, figure out your hooks, and find a way to face them in a way that feels better to you.  I highly recommend the book "Emotional Agility", the website www.quietrevolution.com, and/or a good therapist for support.

I found it hard to develop into my parent role and feel confident in myself.  I found it took a very long time to find supportive friends and my tribe as a parent.  It's worth the work, but I think you'll feel better and model a positive approach for your growing child(ren).

Take care of yourself.  You're clearly thoughtful and passionate.  Use that to your benefit.

There is a very tight group of parents at my daughter's pre-school; they generally smile and say hello but never initiate conversation of "open up" their own conversation if someone else tries to join in. The first few times I attended events I was very focused on this group, then one time none of them were there and I had a great time chatting with all the other parents. One of them even said, to my surprise, that she only attended after knowing I'd be there. I'm ashamed to say that previously in the presence of this cliquish group I had reverted to adolescence and acted like a satellite, wishing I was part of it rather than finding other people standing alone and talking with them. No more. If this applies to you, look around and see who else is worth getting to know (and who might be thinking the same thing) rather than focusing on the exclusive group. 

On another note, it's great to make friends with other parents, but the child should be the focus of school, and we need to keep our own social anxieties away from them. If he or she is doing fine, your job is done and any residual social benefit to you is an unexpected bonus,

Hi there, I'm with you -- I did find the whole world of moms and cliques even harder than high school. My kids are in late teens now and what a relief not to have to deal with "the mom scene" anymore. I totally expected we'd "all be in this together" too, but instead it's a pretty strenuous hierarchy. I think that's because a) parental involvement in kids' school is legitimately a way to increase odds of kids' success in life and b) certain parents (not all but some)have time and inclination to *really* go for it in this way, and try to get the best position in the hierarchy (for self and kids) they can. I couldn't have won this game if I had tried -- I worked full time AND divorced my husband (for good reasons) when kids were young. I had no idea people cared so much about these factors. They say they don't, but when the cold shoulder turns your way -- you know it, right? As the kids got older, more and more other moms were in my shoes, so the differences softened, but by then my social life was well outside the school anyway.  

I thought the previous respondent was a bit harsh on you (calling you hostile). It is the nature of cliques to BELIEVE that the clique is not a clique, and is open to anyone. To even notice there's a hierarchy flies in the face of all the values we are teaching the kids! So no one can ever communicate for real about these dynamics, and then people like you and me suffer silently, believing we are the only ones getting a cold shoulder. But here's what I reminded myself: 1) The clique is not "everyone." It is a smallish group of very visible people. 2) The school is not really my social "hub" -- it's my kids'. And 3) If I want to, I can be the change I want to see among the school parents, and reach out to those I may have not been "seeing", who are not in the clique either (e.g., people new to the area, new to the country, and/or new to the English language, for example). These folks are often very happy to make a new friend. And if we'd all do that, well, life would be a lot sweeter!

lemme guess. you're at a private school? 

I hear you! I always gravitated towards people who were like me- admitted my kids were monsters on occasion- honest about the struggles of parenthood and marriage and life in the costly bay area. My suggestion- seek out the parents who give you a comfortable vibe- invite them for dinner- trytocultivate friendships with those similar to you and remember- the ones pretending all is well are probably struggling just as much or more than the rest of us! 

I'm so sorry to hear you've had this experience. Yuck. I'm 34 and have a 5 year old, and haven't experienced this at all. We've made a really awesome group of friends through my daughter's preschool (a coop). Maybe it'll change going into kindergarten? I sincerely hope not.

I have a yes-and-no answer. For me, preschool drop-off was a quick drop-and-go format, and now that my kid is in kindergarten, it's more of a lingering, social event. I was kind of a weirdo in high school and definitely feel a flashback when I chat with parents at drop-off. None of the parents are mean at all, and ALL of the interactions are pleasant. I have to remind myself constantly that my awkward feelings are mine, and that just because I worry that the other parents think I'm weird/awkward/poor doesn't mean that they actually do.

I sometimes worry that other parents don't initiate playdates (or don't follow up on my initiating) because they think I dress weird or that they know we qualify for free school lunch, and they secretly don't want their kid to associate with a low-income kid. Again, that's my insecurity in play, and I handle it just like I handled high school or any other time that I felt not entirely accepted by a group--- I'm friendly to everyone and do my best to be as social as I can be at drop off. If nothing else, then any negative thought someone might have has to be followed by, "---but they've always been nice every time I've talked to them!"

I'd say that if you had a bit of hard time socially in high school like I did, you might find some of the same anxiety with your kid's school, but at the same time you might also find those other folks who also don't feel like they fit in, you know, the parental equivalent of the Drama Club kids. I think a little extra effort might make your kid's way through elementary school a little easier. Maybe pick the most friendly-looking parent you see at drop-off and make yourself walk up to them and make small talk, to start? Best wishes with it! It can be tough!

My own two cents - a lot of the perceived snobbishness is just that people stay in their comfort zone, and once they have made friends with others at their kids' school, they tend to stick with those people.  I have been in your shoes... and personally I am the type of person who likes reaching out to new people, so I have felt the cold shoulder you describe. What has helped me has been to focus on finding one or two parents who "are my people," whether it's the parents of my my child's friends or if it's through volunteering in the classroom where you might find a common interest. I met some great folks through being an art docent, for instance.  Once you find a few "go-to" people, it won't matter about the crowd. And for me, these are the people have ended up being long term friends. 

Don’t waste time worrying about it.  It’s like that anywhere in life.  Give it time and you will find your tribe.  I promise.

Been There

Either you click with certain parents or you don’t. If you don’t,  look elsewhere. For me, if I start viewing individuals collectively under a single label, I know my issues are being triggered. And I get the whole jockeying for position stuff that can go on-but it’s only a problem if you get caught up in it.

I would suggest you connect with those you like and ignore the rest.  I have found church to be a wonderful way of joining a multi-generational community that puts all those awkward phases of life into perspective. And atmy church, everyone is there to be nice to each other. There will be those insecure people who have something to prove. You simply ignore them and understand we are all muddling through the best we can.  Once you let go of whatever you are responding to, you can start noticing those people you can click with or join a community that reflects better your interests and values.  Best of luck!

I've had exactly this thought that being a parent is like being back in high school. Maybe it's because there are all kinds of parents, whereas past high school we tend to select our own friends and areas of interest. My therapist said that the feeling of being excluded is common, but it's important to remain open enough not to cut oneself off from others.

Sadly, your experience is not unusual.  When my kids were young, I was a pariah: a working mom in a sea of SAHMs in Orinda, parent of the weird kids who had social challenges and weren't popular, not a member of the clubs (golf/swim).  I was grateful to the queen bees; their time and energy benefitted the school.  But sometimes their involvement was over-the-top, and more about them than what the kids needed.  I felt a mix of envy and revulsion at their "mean girl" exclusion, and resented their tone-deafness at setting events and meetings in the middle of the day when working parents could not attend.  I hated that they decided which kids were worthy of play dates and which weren't, and the pecking order they (probably unintentionally) exacerbated on the playground.  Sports teams were awful; I heard nasty comments about my son who was not a great athlete -- a whispered "can you believe coach is letting X pitch???" -- when the kids were in (drum roll) third grade.  

I created an antidote -- a group of 8 working Moms we dubbed the POWs (Professional Orinda Women) -- and we had dinner together from time to time.  It helped.  So did time.  Eventually we ended up sending our kids to private school, which was better.  Still some over-the-top competitive parenting, but better.  

Keep your head up, smile at the queen bees and find your tribe.  You'll be fine.  So will your kids.  None of you needs to be the cool kids.  (In the end, some of the queen bees' kids turned out to have all kinds of problems.  Mine, now in their 20s, soared. Not schadenfreude; just a data point.)  

I read your post and the responses with curiousity, because I haven't had this experience, at least not yet (my kids are 4 and 1). Perhaps it's coming in elementary school but I hope not. It sounds like you haven't found your parent tribe yet. And maybe there are some especially snooty parents that you've just been unlucky enough to land with. And maybe also you are getting some legitimate feedback on a behavior that bothered someone (hard to tell, but the reference to not being "woke" enough makes me wonder if you inadvertently insulted someone who is now avoiding you as a result. Are you open to examining this possibility and whether you may have made a misstep?). 

One of the reasons we picked our preschool is because it was pretty laid back. The families are mostly two working parents who don't have time for petty BS or keeping up with the Joneses. Everyone has been very friendly. If it's really this bad at your school, perhaps you need to seek out a subgroup of parents that you can relate to and spend time with on your own terms and then just get through dropoff and pickup as quickly as possible, without paying much mind to the unfriendly ones. 

Yes.  I found that a lot of adult interactions are like high school, just goes to show many people don't really grow up.  I'm a working mom with very long hours so spend very little time in the school in person and an am an immigrant on top of that so I often feel like I don't fit in with the more active PTA moms who are always in the school and are acting like they are in charge.  I chose to ignore it.  My kid is in morning-care and after-care, so I drop off at 7am and I pick up at 6 pm so I don't see a lot of those moms around so at least I don't have to deal with it at drop off.  It does mean that my son is on his own in terms of making social connections since I cannot schedule playdates for him since I don't really know any of the other moms.  Thankfully my son is very social and well liked so I often get emails from women I've never met asking for a playdate with my son or inviting him for events/parties/outings, etc.  My thinking is that I have plenty of friends and I don't need to be friends with the other moms, so when I'm in the school I'm nice and polite but don't care if I'm not in the inner-circle since I'm there to see my kid and not make friends.  My son knows that if he wants a playdate he has to arrange it himself and often does so.  I think if my son's social life was suffering because of it I would care a lot more, but since his social life is fine, I chose to just ignore the whatever clique-ness I see and not let it bother me. 

Thank you for posting this!  I have felt this way from preschool all the way to our current middle school.  I don't think this is specific to private vs. public schools or particular districts.  We have been in Albany schools through elementary and middle school, and the parent cliques are exactly like high school cliques.  People who don't think they exist are usually deeply seated in one of the cliques.  If you have a non-popular child in middle school, the rejection intensifies.  Of course, there are many kind parents (who often feel rejected too) and we try to connect with them.  We also found it helpful to find communities for our kids and us outside of our school community.  Your kids don't have to play on the same teams or go to the same dance studio as the kids at school.  The good news is that by middle school, you don't have as much contact with other parents because the volunteer hours dwindle considerably.  I often remind my partner that the only thing we have in common with the other parents is that we decided to procreate at approximately the same time.  There is not a bond of a shared interest or set of values that fosters friendship in other communities.  Hang in there!

Here is a link to a NY Times article from 4/16/18 that people choose friends who are like themselves.  So, I think it is like high school in some ways.  The part that is different is some people do have a sense of there being a school community where the purpose is the kids and the schools where some people will try to get to know the other parents.  This might come from the PTA leadership.  After a few years, I realized my family was sufficiently different and I would never get to know 99% of the other parents and was just polite to everyone without trying to be friendly, it all worked better.  We have a few other families we will chat with at school events.  We took up more outside activities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/16/science/friendship-discrimination.ht…