Good fences make good neighbors: splitting the cost
Hi all, hoping for some advice from our knowledgeable townspeople. One of our 3 fences (they were all built at different times) recently needed replacing. The neighbor we share that property line with found the contractor and arranged for the work - without mentioning the cost to us. The “ugly side” of the fence faces our yard. In addition, for some reason, their contractor chose to place all of the post holes on our property - not a single one of them was dug into their yard, and it was clearly done intentionally that way. Given these circumstances, what do you think would be a fair split of the cost for the 2 families? We’ve heard of circumstances where the family with the “pretty side” facing their yard bears a higher share of the cost. How have you done it? We’re a little thrown by the fact that we’re left with rather gross looking cement-filled holes all along our fence, while the other family has none of these. Should that, along with the “ugly side” that faces us, mean a lesser share of the cost? Or should a 50/50 split be assumed? Thanks for any input.
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Did you agree to pay for part of the cost of the fence before they started work? If they found the contractor, did the work how they wanted to do it, and didn't get your buy-in to pay for a chunk of the cost ahead of time, I wouldn't pay much if anything!
We have four fences/neighbors and have now replaced all of them, each with a slightly different payment structure. First, it's worth noting that fence etiquette historically says that the owner of the fence has the ugly side and faces the pretty side to the neighbor. For our first fence, the fence is a good neighbor fence (looks the same/"pretty" from both sides), both we and the neighbor got estimates and agreed upon the style and contractor, and we split the cost evenly. For the second fence, an adjacent condo association chose the contractor, the fence design, and paid for everything. It is not a good neighbor fence and the "pretty side" faces them. We didn't fight it since we didn't have to pay anything for it, and figured that was a reasonable tradeoff. The third fence is a good neighbor fence, but the neighbor wanted slightly higher-end styles, so the neighbor paid for most of the fence. The last fence we built, and although it's a good neighbor fence, we did not ask that neighbor to pay since they didn't see the need to replace the existing fence (which was functional but not attractive, and stuck out once the other three fences had been replaced). Since we paid, we chose the style and contractor.
In your situation, I would definitely not expect to pay 50% of the fence given that you had no input on its design or cost and the ugly side faces your yard. I would actually expect the neighbor to pay the entire cost given that they did not consult you at all for cost or design approval and bucked etiquette by facing the nice side towards themselves. A good neighbor fence is not hugely more expensive than a basic fence (having just finished two of them!) and well worth the extra cost for this kind of situation, and it's somewhat egregious that they didn't consider that or ask you. I'd wait until they ask you to pay, and if they do, offer to pay a third or so (or, if you're gutsy, decline all together and simply let them know that had you had an opportunity to provide feedback on the fence and to ensure that the side facing you did not affect the quality of your view, you would happily have paid half--although consider your neighbor relations if you go this route, too). Good luck!
This sounds like an unfortunate outcome. Differences occur depending on the circumstances, but generally the project and cost is agreed upon among all parties before the work is done. It's unclear why that didn't happen in your case.
We recently replaced a fence between my property and our neighbor. My next door neighbor rents out their house, so we don't see them often (they used to live there, but haven't for many years). We have a cordial relationship but we're not best friends or anything. In fact, we had a tense relationship before they moved and decided to rent out their house. We mainly did our communications over texting, since they live near Sacramento, although in the beginning we were both present for contractors coming by for bids. We got three quotes, agreed on the style ahead of time, and agreed each party would pay 50%. We chose a "good neighbor" fence, with alternating panels so that there wasn't a "good side." You can Google "good neighbor fence" if you unsure what that looks like. We made an arrangement with the contractor that each party would pay their portion of the cost, so one party didn't have to front for the whole thing. I got the impression that the fencing contractor was accustomed to neighbor negotiations, which seems logical. I am satisfied with the outcome of our project, and I feel part of the reason it went so smoothly was because of the communication and clarity before the project started. Or maybe we just got lucky!
I can see how you would be unhappy with the fence situation. Did you participate at all in the process? If not, it's possible the neighbor just went ahead and made choices that benefitted them because they were the ones who did all the work (finding the contractor, picking the design, making appointments, paying for it, etc). As for payment, that's trickier. Generally the assumption is that each party shares equally in the cost, but if you're unhappy with how it looks on your side, you might be able to negotiate a lower share. I wish there had been clarity about expectations, cost, and style/design decisions, and it sounds like none of that happened for your project. Good fences make good neighbors, and it seems like you all have some conversations to figure out an equitable and satisfactory solution. Good luck!
We recently replaced one section of the fence. We picked the builder, chose the type of fence and had the nice side. Because of this we chose not to ask our neighbor to pay at all. I think you should defunitely pay less than half.
I would not pay anything for that fence. That was a hostile action on their part. Tell them that when it is time to replace the fence again, you will do it to your liking and pay 100%. Neighbors who want to share the cost should negotiate the design so that all parties are reasonably happy with the result. Unless you refused to negotiate. In that case my answer would be different.
well that stinks. i am not giving legal advise here, but rather writing what my understanding is from our fence adventure. it would be worth speaking directly with a professional on this matter in my opinion. from what i understand, in california the rule is 50/50 split. and yes you are correct, the custom is, the person who initiates / installs the fence is supposed to give the pretty side to their neighbor. (personally we like the ugly side ourselves as it offers more texture and is less 'wall' looking). another option is to have done an, 'every other panel' facing approach, so every 6-8' or so the pretty side switches sides. that offers nice texture to both neighbors and is a nice compromise. regarding the fence post placements... that is a big problem or a blessing. if the fence is indeed totally on your property, well then hey, its yours to do what you wish to do with it. (WWIII of course, but still. your property, your fence. the posts are supposed to be dead on the property line was what the big four fence companies i received estimates from told me. a possible BIG concern is if they're property is encroaching on your land. we have a friend who literally lost some feet of his property along a very long fence line somehow, due to incorrect placement and it wasn't good. even if only inches, make sure this won't be a problem when it comes time to sell and there is a boundary dispute. and sorry you have such a butthead neighbor; we have one too and are still scratching our heads over the ridiculousness of their actions/behaviors. when it comes to money and territory... all rationale goes flying out the window sometimes. egads... good luck to you!
This doesn't sound right---your neighbors should have discussed the price before going ahead with the work if they wanted you to contribute.
I put up a fence that was very elaborate on my side since it is visible from my window, but my neighbor doesn't face the fence, so his side is just plain planks. I happily paid for 2/3 of it, and my neighbor paid for 1/3. I kept him in the loop through the whole project, as well as encouraging him to meet with the builders.
The fact that your neighbors didn't OK the price with you first, nor ask about the cement filled holes, leads me to feel they really should pay for the entire fence themselves. If they didn't include you in the project, and you didn't agree before hand on a price, the project lacks a verbal contract. If you don't feel comfortable paying nothing, I would definitely not pay more than 1/3.
It's not getting just your getting the ugly side of the fence, it's the new posts being put in your yard versus their original position and gross cement job to boot that would disincline me from paying 50/50. Something similar recently happened to me, only a new fence that I had no say in went up and I was not asked to pay. It was a quick and dirty job prior to selling the house next door, and my ugly side has nails protruding my way from every fence board attached. Rather than living with the ugly side and being upset about it forever, I'm putting up my own boards on my side. If you did the same, I would recalculate the total cost to be what the contractor charged your neighbor plus what you spend on your side, split the total cost 50/50 (or a lesser percentage to compensate you for less yard) and deduct what you spent on your half from what you give your neighbor.
Honestly, if the fence is over your property line you need to have the line drawn by a surveyor and contest the placement of the fence. If you allow encroachment on your property openly and knowingly for five years, the area becomes the property of the neighbor. A fence that sits on the property line is supposed to be cost-split 50/50, and your neighbor couldn't potentially sue you for that. But honestly, you're going to live with the ugly on your side for 20 years or so now, and it sounds like it's encroaching on your property. I'd consult an attorney and get this fixed to your satisfaction because now the fence is built and you're either stuck with it and pay for it, or you do something about it. It's unlikely your neighbors are going to want to do anything about it at this point.
I haven't had a fence put up recently but did have a property line survey done within the past 6 weeks. The surveyor suggested to me, off the record, that if I decide to put a fence up between my and my neighbor's property, and I am going to be paying for the fence, I should have it built 1-2 inches on my side of the property. This way the neighbor, if she complains, cannot touch the fence since it's on my property. I consulted my neighbor about doing a survey and she chose not to contribute to the cost. She doesn't not want a fence put up either so I will pay for that too. Since the posts were placed on your side of the property without your consent, perhaps you have some legal recourse. Also, I've seen some fences in my neighborhood where the pretty and ugly sections of the fences were alternated. This could have been a solution to your problem if you were consulted first by your neighbor. From your posting, it sounds like your neighbor did not consult you at all. I would assume that the neighbor would bear the entire cost of replacing the fence.