Are we chasing the impossible?

You can absolutely find a great house in that price range in my neighborhood, East Richmond Heights. Very near the Del Norte Bart, easy commute to the city, really great area -- I call it the next Oakland. I know Oakland is wonderful and I would be sad to leave it too, but I promise you we have scrappy charm over here, and I love the schools (I am in the Mira Vista district). Feel free to HMU if you want me to look at particular houses and advise you. 

Have you thought about looking in El Cerrito or the flats of Richmond. There you could buy a home in your price bracket and be about an hour or less by Bart to the city.

I live in El Sobrante. You can get a great home in your price range. We have easy access (excluding rush hour) all over the area. There's a Trader Joe's, Peets, people with chickens that sell organic eggs, nice neighbors, a Waldorf school. Check it out.

Have you considered only putting 10%-15% down instead? I have friends that were able to get into the market this way. Your interest rate will be slightly higher but it is still doable. The bank they used to do this is SoFi. I would also look in Kensington/El Cerrito area. Kensington is a great little city in the Berkeley hills area close to bart with a great K-6 school. The houses in this area seem to go a little lower than the rest of the overpriced bay area. Real Estate cycles historically last 6-8 years we are on year 6 for the latest cycle. I have a feeling there will be less buyers soon which will bring prices down. 

See recent post on "where is the next great neighborhood" blah blah. If you need to be on a BART line, El Cerrito or San Leandro will get you to the FiDi in an hour or less. Spend a Sunday afternoon in each bopping around the open houses, checking out the neighborhoods, meeting a few realtors, and seeing what you get for your budget. $1M should get you a 3br in El Cerrito within a 15-20 min walk to BART. (I don't know current market in SL as well.) 1600SF, probably not, that's quite large. Consider a townhome in San Ramon if that amount of square footage is what you really need. We have a 4 br/2ba in El Cerrito that is only 1400SF (but doesn't feel small for our family of 4).  After you buy, consider one parent reducing hours or going to some less-pressured, less of a commute job to keep the family sane.

Yes, many people get assistance from their parents to buy a house, and at times before we bought a house I felt bitter too. But keep in mind there are always strings attached to family money, and personally I am glad my husband and I did it ourselves, even if our house isn't the fanciest.
 

Are you only looking in Berkeley and Oakland?  If you are open to places behind, el Cerrito and Richmond heights to the north and Castro valley to the south are places to start that have good schools and are near Bart stations. 

You can get a lot more bang for your buck if you go upper East Bay, like Walnut Creek or Concord, or lower East Bay like Dublin or Pleasanton. Plenty of beautiful family homes within your price range! As long as you are on the BART line your commute to SF should be around an hour, give or take. 

It is frustrating, and the market is crazy!

I think that you can find something, but you are probably going to need to compromise on one of your requirements - either go further away (try El Cerrito or Richmond?), or look for something smaller. We were lucky enough to get something recently with similar requirements to you in Alameda - have you looked there?

Good luck!

Try Castro Valley! BART station, great library, Trader Joe's, good schools, mild weather, more affordable housing.

In your price range, you could definitely afford a 3 bedroom house within a 1-hour commute of SF in a decent neighborhood. I don't think you'll get your square footage wish (1600+ is pretty huge for the East Bay), and you won't be in Rockridge, but real estate is all about prioritizing, especially in a hot market.

I wouldn't be so quick to write off those "transitional" neighborhoods in Berkeley and Oakland, especially the former. We bought our first house over in West Berkeley (in the neighborhood sometimes called Poet's Corner), and, while we didn't know much about the area before we lived there, we ended up really loving it. Lots of new shops and restaurants popping up, easy bus access and pretty close to N. Berkeley Bart, safe, and we had a huge lot. The area north of San Pablo Park until it gets a little pricier near North Berkeley Bart is still relatively affordable and really wonderful. Great schools, too. I've also noticed more friends with kids buying in the Bushrod and Dimond district areas of Oakland, and they all seem really happy in those neighborhoods.

It's tough out there, for sure. We submitted close to a dozen offers this last go around (bought towards the end of 2016), but try not to get too discouraged. Find a realtor you get along with, get a mortgage broker to explore all financing options, and keep going. Good luck!

You have missed the boat in the Berkeley/Oakland/Albany area.  I would check out San Ramon.  San Ramon is 25 minutes from Oakland, all the schools are great, it has a low crime rate and a new downtown is being built and will be ready by October 2018.  http://www.citycenterbishopranch.com/    It takes one hour to commute to San Francisco and is also an hour a away from silicon valley.  There are parts of San Ramon where housing is within your price range.  

You can definitely buy a house for this amount of money, but you may have to compromise on some of the things you're asking for. Decide how important home ownership is to you, and what you're willing to compromise on. There are a lot of lovely places out there that may  not fit exactly into your check boxes. We bought our first home last year in Maxwell Park (aka "way out by Mills College") for far less than a million dollars, and we love it. It's a little smaller than we'd like, but we have a huge yard, are blocks away from a great public school, and within a mile/mile-and-a-half pleasant walk from the Laurel shopping district. The neighborhood feels safe and friendly, and we're about a 30-minute drive from downtown SF. I don't know if this applies to you, but I know a lot of people overlook some really lovely parts of the Bay Area and Oakland because of prejudices about those neighborhoods that are based on ignorance. 

Also, if you're willing to get creative on your home financing, you should consider a mortgage where you put down less than 20%. Yes, it means you will owe more in the long run, but it will stretch your $140k much, much farther and make it far easier to get your hands on a piece of property. Most commercial lenders will accept as little as 5% down, and if you go a FHA/govt backed loan route, you can put down as little as 3.5%. 

In short, you can do it. But if home ownership is as important to you as you seem to say it is, you may have to compromise on some of the "perfect" fantasies you've been imagining about what owning a home means. Good luck. 

I have a couple pieces of advice for you.  One of them is to focus not on those around you who have more or who have better luck, but to focus on the fact that your family is in fact one of the lucky families here.  We make half as much as you do, but we still make more than plenty of other families who also have to pay outrageous housing and daycare costs.  I understand your feelings of envy, I've had to struggle with them too.   I did grow up here but my mom was never able to own a house as a single mom and in fact had to move back to Indiana recently because she was priced out after 35 years of living here.  My husband's family owned a house in Lafayette, but sold it back in the 80's due to divorce.  C'est la vie.  I've lived in the Bay Area my whole life, went to UC Berkeley, moved to the city as a teenager, lived in Oakland for ten years, and I always thought that I would work hard and be frugal and eventually we would buy a little house in a funky area of Berkeley.  That isn't going to happen.  With a lot of luck and good timing we were able to buy a little house in Pinole (a seriously hidden gem) back in 2010.  I'm a teacher and my husband works for an environmental nonprofit, and we did it without any help from family.  For a long time we talked about how this was just a short term move and that eventually we would parlay this back into living in Oakland or Berkeley again.  It caused me a lot of angst and I resisted really settling in here, because I had a vision in my head of the kind of people we were and the life I thought we should be living. I really had a wake up call when my daughter said, "We're not moving! We have a nice house and we like it here and we are going to stay!"  That's a long winded way of saying that I became a lot happier once I stopped focusing on all the things we couldn't have that I thought we should be able to, and instead focused on how lucky we were to have the things we do.  It's also cheesy, but I started repeating the mantra "Bloom where you're planted" when I found myself feeling envious.

The other advice I have would be to consider El Cerrito.  Assuming you can take Bart to work, that should be under your 1 hour commute guideline and you could definitely get a house there in your price range.  Also, I know how painful $2000 a month in daycare is, but if you send your kids to public schools that number should be going down in the future.  My oldest heads to kindergarten next year and our childcare costs are dropping from $1900 a month to $1300 a month, and will drop to $600 a month in two years when we just have to pay for after care.

My point is that you are very fortunate to have such incredibly high incomes and such a huge amount of money in the bank.  You have more options and choices than you realize and you absolutely have enough to make a life for yourself here that feels like one you want to have.  You might just need to think outside of the box a bit.  And if you really want a bargain, come check out Pinole.  It's one of the last places in the Bay Area with the same chill vibe that I remember so fondly from my youth, and it's full of regular people like us.  If you came here, you would be the super rich family that made everyone else envious ;)

Have you considered Alameda? $1M for a 3 bed and 1600+ is just on the edge of possible here for single family homes. Many go for above this, especially those in pristine move-in condition. There are lots of townhomes that are very nice. Not the same as a single family, but you can get more for your money that way. Plus, you can take the ferry to work in San Francisco. Schools here are great and so is the sense of community. The house search, however, is not for the faint of heart. Typically houses get 5+ offers and sell for 10-25% over asking, so for a good gauge of prices look at sold figures rather than listing price. Good luck in your search. 

I feel your pain. We just bought in Bushrod and love it! 5 min bike ride from Rockridge and 8 min for macaurther Bart. We spent 820, but invested over 100k to remodel. If you are ok with piecemeal remodeling, you can get it for cheaper. It's only a 2-1, but with potential for converting the garage into living space. Our kids share a room, but they are still young. I hear spring picks up, so it may make sense to wait for the slower market. We signed our offer Dec 21st. Good luck!

You can probably get something with 3 bedrooms for $1 million but it might not be in your preferred neighborhoods and the schools won't be good and it won't be move in ready. It is what it is. Keep looking, keep saving until you find something. 

Dear Impossible Dreamer

You are doing everything correctly to buy your first home. There are some "marginal neighborhoods" where there are young families like yours working to make them better. Remember that it may take years to transform neighborhoods into what is considered desirable by today's standards.  All those  retired mailmen, teachers, government workers, and retired military bought their homes for prices that were only two to three times their annual gross income. The Bay Area was an industrial area then, with only a few upper middle class families. In this post-industrial economy almost everyone is upper-middle class, so there is much more competition for the limited housing stock.

I doubt if a few steaks more or less will make that much difference in your budget. Good luck!

"We limit the number of steaks we eat a month to save food cost, despite my husband being a red meat lover. I'm getting really depressed."

Look no further than Alameda.  Some of the neighborhoods will be out of your price range but many will fall perfectly within it.  There are some good public elementary schools and lots of nice parks (eliminating the need to have a large yard, although most homes in Alameda do have at least some backyard on par with Oakland/Berkeley homes).  It is a very family-oriented community.  Lots of kids.  It is safe, the speed limit is 25 mph almost everywhere, and there is a beach!  You can commute to SF by ferry or by the transbay bus lines.  There are also local lines that travel to BART.  

Is Alameda as hip as Oakland?  No.  But the island has its own charm which is why so many families stay in Alameda and why so many new ones look to move here.  

Like most of the East Bay the real estate market in Alameda is competitive (we had to place several offers before we won our home) and there is less inventory so you may need to be patient, but there are definitely homes to be had that check all of the boxes you listed above.  

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone!  We were able to buy a condo in Adams Point that has gone up significantly in value.  Our plan was to sell it and use the proceeds for a down payment.  But even if we end up with $200,000 cash for a 20% down payment, 800k won't get us what we want -- and the monthly mortgage would be stratospheric, too!  All we can afford is the same houses we turned down in 2014 only now they cost $200k more.  And I am from the Bay Area but having a "goldmine" SF house in the family is not enough -- the owner of said house has to be willing to cough up the cash and not all parents/grandparents want to do that, contrary to norms around here.  So, I will follow your thread with interest because I'm in the same boat except I can't even afford a second child!

There are some real gems in the Richmond and el cerrito hills in your price range 

you should check out san leandro. you can definitely buy the  3 bedroom size house you are looking for within your price range. it's also close to bart and trans bay buses. there's not as much to do as oakland but you may be a lot less frustrated ( i feel your pain... it's insane here). check out farrely pond or broad moor neighborhoods. it's getting more expensive, but nothing close to oakland. wish you the best of luck! 

also terry martinez and amy robeson are two helpful and knowledge real estate agents in the area.

Hi! 

We all feel your pain! 

We are in the same boat, and what we did is that we decided to buy land in montclair. It was hard to find a good deal, but with the help of our awesome relator and some patience we were able to buy two lots in the middle of December during the raining season, when most people are desperate to sale. This allowed us to negotiate hard and get down to a price we could afford. We will be start construction next summer. This is the only way we could afford a home in this area. I highly recommend you looking into this option. You'll be surprised. There are many  benefits to this, brand new construction, design for your family needs, and immediate higher property value. The downside is that you need to be patient and find a good architect and contractor.  

Google "Paymun", they are based in Lafayette, they do  real estate services all the way to managing construction. 

Best of luck! Keep positive you are doing all the right things!!

also, laurel district and the mills college area are really cute. they are getting expensive too but may still be in reach. through our preschool community in the laurel, we've met lots if great families who live in those areas. wish i would have considered them more ( choose san leandro). there are also great bilingual school options, charter (urban montessori) and public options within reach. farmer joes and food mill aren't too far away for good fresh food and natural health needs.

Not sure who your realtor was, but I live in the Dimond neighborhood of Oakland, near Dimond Park, with easy access to the freeway, a casual carpool pickup point and transbay buses -- the 1 hour commute to San Francisco that you asked for.  The house next door to mine, a 2 BR, 2 full bath house on a corner lot, just sold for about $760,000.  Not a million.  The house had been gutted and completely renovated (it had formerly been a 2 BR, 1 bath house).  So the kind of house you want is out there.

My husband and I have a similar background. Our combined income was about $250k in 2015 when we decided to leave our 1-bdrm rental in SF, and buy our first 2 br home in El Cerrito. The downpayment was over $120k, and we paid it all ourselves. We don't come from rich families either and didn't ask for help. We drive a 2001 Honda Civic. The main difference is that we didn't have any kids at the time (we now have 1).

I think it's still possible to find what you're looking for. Almost. You might not check off all the boxes, but I think in places like El Cerrito you can get a 3 bedroom house with a yard near BART for less than a million dollars. Your commute might not be under 1 hour, but if you work near BART downtown, it comes close. I'm thankful my job allows me to work from home twice a week so I get a break from the constant commuting. My husband is not so lucky and his office is near the ballpark, so more like a 1 hour 15 min commute (he walks fast).

We are in the Mira Vista elementary school district and it's not as good as the nearby Madera, but I'm hoping in 5 years it'll be better.

It's tough and you probably have to make some trade-offs. Good luck.

It's a little unclear from your post whether you're seeking a 1-hour SF commute by car, or are open to public transit but opposed to the neighborhoods your realtor suggested. Have you considered other points on the BART line? We have friends who live within walking distance of El Cerrito Plaza station and paid ~$750K for their house last year. We have been in our house in Pinole 3 1/2 years and similar houses now seem to be going for between $550-600K; we're not on the BART doorstep but there is a bus connector that runs every 20 minutes during commute hours. We have a 1300sqft 3-bedroom ranch house, 6000sqft lot. We are around the corner from the local elementary school, within walking distance of hiking trails and playgrounds; the public library, coffee shop & Trader Joe's are about a 1.5 mile walk.

I would also strongly recommend our realtor, Declan Spring; he was very good at helping us as first-time homebuyers to form realistic expectations about what we could get and where. Good luck. 

A couple years ago I would have said El Cerrito for sure. We love our neighborhood and community and are quite happy with the public schools. I think you can still get a three bedroom for 850 to 1 mil. Also try parts of West Contra Costa that are a little further out. There are many good schools in WCCUSD. Test scores are lower because the schools are diverse in all ways-- something we like a lot. Best of luck. No rich grandparents here either.

Hi. I do not have an answer but wanted to say thank you for your honest question. We are pretty much in the same boat, and while it doesn't solve this impossible puzzle, it was nice to know that others are sharing our frustration. So thank you. 

Check out Canyon, CA -- on a back road between Moraga and Montclair, Oakland -- a former hippie community, now evolving beyond that, with an excellent public school -- 20 minutes to Berkeley, less to Oakland. Hard to find anything to buy there, but be persistent and something you can afford, even if it's a bit funky, will pop up. It might need some work, maybe a lot of work, but no one locks their doors there -- can you imagine?
 

I think you can find what you want in San Rafael or Novato (Marin).  We don't have BART but there are lots of buses that go direct to the city, and the drive takes us 45-60 minutes. Very family-oriented, and good schools.

Also, you will probably find a credit union (if you are a member) is much more flexible than a bank in making loans.  I recommend you join one.

If you want to contact me off-line, I can refer you to the realtor we used for Marin County.

Good luck!

Would you consider San Leandro or Castro Valley? They both have BART stations and would not add on significantly to your commute times. Downtown San Leandro is actually really cute and there are good sized houses in nice neighborhoods.

We live in Bushrod and love it. We feel safe and there are several neighborhood parks that we see children at all the time. We are within walking distance to Ashby BART and close to all amenities. I know that prices are increasing here as the neighborhood becomes more well known, but there are still some deals to be found. (Article about Bushrod here.)

I totally understand your frustration and can certainly say more things to fuel your frustration, but doing that  won't solve your problems. I feel that you may need to reexamine your life style/spending habit and find ways to save more (I think you can do it!). With your price range and $250k+ income, you should be able get something nice. I'd suggest you look at North Berkeley neighborhood, Kensington, and Albany. (If you still can't find anything, you can also try El Cerrito.) Each has its own charm. They are all very livable, quiet, safe, and have great schools (except El Cerrito). Of the 3 cities, Albany schools are probably the best, academically speaking. And because of the school reputation, there are not a whole lot of inventories on the market. Houses get snatched up pretty quickly. The houses in Albany are also the smallest, so a lot of people remodel almost right after the purchase. Kensington is also a great place to live. The lots are generally bigger so there's a bit more living space. Kensington elementary school is excellent, but it has no middle/high school so the kids will have to go to schools in El Cerrito or go private. In general, Kensington kids attend private schools. Kensington is woodsy and hilly, and you can often spot deer and wild turkeys. It's a pretty place, but a bit remote. Another upside with the city is that it's close to El Cerrito BART station, which means that you can always find a seat in the morning (since most people hop on later stations). People also take the AC Transit to get to the cities. Anyway, the houses in all these cities are in your range (though they may need some remodeling work). Last thing, there is also an advantage of purchasing a house in the Contra Costa county for various reasons (Kensington and El Cerrito are in CCC.). Anyway, your agent should be able to help you with that. Look north! Don't be frustrated.

Have you considered El Cerrito? I think you may still be able to find a good deal there and it's safer than the "transitional" neighborhoods in Oakland. Another option is Walnut Creek, if you don't mind the summer heat. Both towns are near Bart so the commute to San Francisco is not too terrible. 

One place to look is El Cerrito/Pinole/El Sobrante. We are in El Cerrito and see 3 bedroom homes in our neighborhood going for 800-900K. Our son goes to a wonderful public school just a few minutes from our house and my husband and I both commute to SF from Del Norte Bart and it is under an hour trip. We drive about 15 minutes to  to Berkeley and Albany on weekends for activities and restaurants or walkable shopping so we don't really feel like we are out in the far suburbs. Most of the people buying homes around us are young families with kids who feel priced out of Berkeley/Oakland!

I feel your pain.  It is so tough to buy here.  I love my neighborhood, but I don't know about the "decent school" requirement.  I live in the El Cerrito hills, near the Richmond line. It is a straight shot down to the freeway entrance to I 80-W (SF), and in addition, there are express buses running during commuting hours to SF, and BART is actually walkable for me... you might be able to snag a parking place at the Del Norte BART station if you leave early or park (illicitly, but may do) at EC Plaza and take BART from there.  So the commute is absolutely doable.  My house is now valued at about $735,000, and it has three bedrooms, two baths, and a very nice open living room area and big eat-in kitchen (plenty of room for a table for four plus cooking space.  And a two-car garage.  My housing costs me $3,000/mo. including property tax and all utilities (internet, garbage, electricity and gas, water) -- though I bought in three years ago, so now the payment would be higher (I paid $585,000).  My son was already out of school when I moved here, so the school thing did not occupy my attention.  Maybe you could check in with the other parents on the network to see what they say... if you were prepared to go up to a million for your home, maybe you could afford private school.  Anyway, check us out -- I love the beauty and the peace and quiet of our neighborhood.

good luck!

I live near the Oakland/ Emeryville boarder and am loving it.  Diverse, friendly neighborhood.  I moved her after my youngest was in high school so I don't know about living here with young children. I have noticed a wonderful park with great playground full of happy kids and parents.  It's called Temescal Creek park.  Entrance is on 47th Street just west of Adaline.  You might consider bringing your kids to play in the park and asking the parents how they like the neighborhood.  Don't write off Oakland or Emeryville. These cities have a lot to offer.
 

I feel your pain... we are pushing 40, 2 kids, still renting. We are actually thinking of relocating to the mid-west, ouch.

Im petrified.

Caroline

I feel for you!  But don't forget what you do have now -- a neighborhood you must like, apparently great jobs, a huge savings account, and two kids!  

How did I do it?  I bought a house in a crappy neighborhood, that has since turned into an extremely desirable one.  I intentionally bought a larger house and had between 2 and 4 room-mates to help pay the mortgage for several years, even with a kid.  I rarely splurged or ate out.  Vacations were almost always to visit relatives.  It was touch & go for a lot of years, but of course it has paid off in the long run.

What about the Sunset in SF?  Moving even closer to your jobs.  Or Daly City.  What if you buy a property that doesn't meet all of your ideals, but gets you some equity.  That way you are benefitting from rising real estate from the inside, rather than watching it continually be out of your reach from the outside.  Best of luck!

Look, these are hard realities of our choice to live in the Bay Area. It's not that it isn't frustrating and hard, but living in a 1100 sq foot house in what you call a "transitional" neighborhood isn't the worst thing -- you're still living in a beautiful place, with many options and quality of life that clearly matter to you. We visited our friends in Copenhagen -- the 1100 sq foot house (with a yard) that you can get in the neighborhoods you listed are pretty comfortable by comparison. Our friends live in a ~800sq ft apartment with 2 kids -- sure they have amazing quality of life there, but they have crappy weather and little light at least half the year. 1100 sq ft is not such a burden to adjust to. Yes, it would be nice to live in a more walkable and safer neighborhood, but many people in the country, in this world, don't get those privileges. I am often reminded that one of the hardest parts of the Bay Area is the visibility of privilege -- as you said, you have to win the startup lottery, come from money, or have been earlier generation Bay Area person. That's not most of us. And that's ok. It really sounds like you need to adjust your expectations. We bought our house a few years ago in what you're calling a "transitional" neighborhood, and though we wish we had more trees and less sounds of gunshots (something I'm committed to working on for all the members of my community), we also like the heterogeneity (class, ethnicity, etc) of our neighborhood. Our house has appreciated, and we think at some point, we may be able to expand it enough to make it larger for our family of 4. SF has become homogeneous and is mostly a playground for the rich. I wish I'd had enough money to buy something in 2000, or 2010, or....or....but we didn't. I've chosen the overall value of staying in the Bay Area and the relatively central location of our neighborhood over suburbia because I want to have some of the things I value. I have also struggled with the frustrations of what I can't have -- but relatively speaking, I try to remember how privileged it is to have these complaints. I realized a while ago that all our friends who purchased houses/apts. in SF were people who sold their companies. I don't have any friends in their late 30s or early-mid 40s, who've worked consistently their adult lives, who have bought in SF without having sold a company. Period. Including people without kids. That's just what life means here. Why not move on and find a block you like in one of these "transitional" neighborhoods -- most of them have an eclectic community and people who are pretty friendly and invested in where they live. I never had neighbors in SF who felt as present and engaged as I do in Oakland. What seems less ideal and foreign may also come to feel more familiar once you make peace with these limited (yet still pretty good) choices. 

Have you tried looking El Cerrito?  The schools are good and it is a very family orientated community.   With two BART stations to choose from, it's convenient for commuting to SF.

Orinda or Walnut Creek?  I found some postings on Trulia for 800k-1 million that are in walnut Creek or Orinda and meet your criteria (well, not sure about the nice big yard part...).  Also not cheap, but might be marginally cheaper than the nice parts of Oakland/Berkeley. My husband and I are in a very similar situation to yours, except we only have 1 kid.  Otherwise, your post looks like a clone of what I think about at least once/month.

p.s. rent in walnut Creek for a house is also $3500/month. This is what the market will bear. So, if we/you don't want to pay, then the obvious choice is to move out of the bay Area.  Commuting from walnut Creek BART to downtown SF (Embarcadero area) takes about 1 hour or less, if you are lucky. If you have to deal with taking the Muni or go further into the city, it could take longer. Orinda is closer, though not quite as close as Oakland.

Take a look in Alameda. There are houses in your price range. The community is wonderful and public schools are strong. Many people commute to SF by ferry, bus, or BART. If you work downtown the commute would likely be well under an hour. 

El Cerrito! Fits into your price range, easy to get BART into San Francisco and a nice place to live with a young family.

I hear your frustration... similar stories (2nd kid on the way)... while you may not be able to get the square footage you are looking for, you can definitely get a small 3 bedroom house in a decent neighborhood. We were priced out of Berkeley/Albany/el cerrito so we just bought our first house in the laurel district of Oakland which for us is nice. The house is 4 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms and is small (only 1,200 square feet and a smallish yard) BUT it has a basement that's the same size that bit by bit we hope to raise and refinish down the line. Husband works in SF and I work in Berkeley and we got our place for 688k-- it does need some work though, so that's not where the costs end. Laurel and divine districts are between hwy 13 and 580 which helps with commutes while still being in a nicer neighborhood. You are going to have to make some compromises on type of house, square footage etc. we got a deal on our house because the inside was very outdated and didn't have the modern/staged look. A diamond in the rough.... I'm just saying that it IS possible... if I were you I'd get a new real estate agent and start attending open houses to check out the neighborhoods-- yours doesn't sound like they're advocating for you much. 

Try Walnut Creek

You might look at Benicia. We moved here in 2001 when the housing market was just as crazy. We have good schools, and you can commute to SF by ferry or even casual carpool. Benicia's very family oriented and very friendly. I still miss Oakland but there are no bad neighborhoods here and I think it's affordable by your standards. I highly recommend my close friend, Maria Jensen of Twin Oakes Realty at 707-339-1879. Good luck. 

Hello,

i think both your gut, and your real estate agent, are telling you the sad truth. To (further?) convince yourselves of that, you could try speaking with another agent or two, attending the home-buying seminars that some agencies ((Redfin being one) offer, and signing up to receive real estate listings for your specified "possible" neighborhoods in your inbox. 

It is a very different world, and I think the general feeling out there is it's not going to change (much?) anytime soon. I wish you the very best of luck, and wish I had some secrets or words of wisdom. Our family can't imagine living anywhere but here, but we've certainly heard the stories, increasing in number, of those who've had to go elsewhere(or those in different positions who've chosen to go elsewhere after learning firsthand what their homes are now worth). Best of luck in your journey. 

Have you looked into the Laurel area?  I have happily lived in the Laurel for 10+ years. Lots of young families and access to SF is great via BART and bus. 3 bedroom homes are selling within your budget. You should check it out.

Thats really tough. Have you considered moving a little away and taking Bart to the City? That may open up more areas for you. I hear that Dublin and San Ramon areas have great schools and nice housing.. best wishes.

That is depressing. The Bay Area is really expensive and it is hard to get ahead. I don't want my kids to move back here - too difficult to make a decent living and have a comfortable life. I moved away from Oakland a few years ago, but I wish I'd kept my house with what you are saying about home prices. We spend ten years in Redwood Heights in Oakland. It was our first home (when we were in our 30s) and was a great place to start or even to stay longer term. If that area is too bid up, what about The Laurel, an adjacent neighborhood? How about considering San Leandro? Again, I may be out of touch as I left a few years ago, but those may be options. Also, if you can take Bart to your jobs, how about looking in Pleasant Hill or Walnut Creek? There are also townhomes in Moraga and Lafayette that are below a million and should be big enough for a family of four. Just today a realtor friend of mine was talking about a townhome that was $900,000 in Lamorinda. If you land in a good school district, then you won't have to pay for private school - bonus! Good luck!

Have you looked at Albany? That may conform to some of your criteria (decent schools, and prices in your range, maybe).

I am not a financial advisor, and you may not want to hear this but:

Financially, it may make more sense to continue to rent. 3500 for rent sounds like a decent deal if you are in a place you like that meets most of your criteria.  The money you spend owning (property tax, insurance, earthquake insurance, maintenance, renovations, interest and more) adds up very, very quickly, more quickly than you can really imagine, and this could all be going into a nice diversified portfolio without the single concentrated risk of a house. I would not count on real estate going up the way it has for the last 20 years; it could but it also might not. Historically, equity markets have done better than real estate; the key is diversification and low transaction costs (index funds, for instance, or a service like wealthfront). 

I understand the emotional attachment to owning one's home, but from a rational, realistic point of view I would really look critically at whether or not it is worth it. The interest tax deduction probably won't even cover the property tax. And you may get hit with AMT trying to deduct local taxes. Even as a long term investment, it may not make sense. I know what I'm saying goes against the american home ownership dream, but I have been advised caution on home ownership by many a savvy financial advisor (not TV talking heads). It took reams of excel spreadsheets to convince me, but we chose to be happy in a decent rental and not rush until the time was right while we watched our savings grow. We rented for years before buying during the crash. Sure, I wasn't able to nest as much as I would have liked but it was one of the best decisions we ever made. I know plenty of people who lost their homes by over-extending themselves. There will probably be another crash.

I know your frustration. You need to look a little farther north.

El Cerrito has safe neighborhoods, good schools, nice people, and two BART stations. You can still buy what you want in your price range.

If you don't have an agent, contact Karen Sanders Moss at Marvin Gardens on Fairmont Ave. in El Cerrito. She is an El Cerrito native and knows the area well.

Former extremeley frustrated North Oaklander

Look in El Cerrito or parts of Emryville, Fremont?

I can imagine how frustrating it is. We are one of the lucky ones who just moved back to the Bay Area because my mother is giving us her house.  We live in the Richmond annex and love it. My son is only 2 and will be starting preschool at the Berkeley School in the fall, but we may consider sending him to El Cerrito Public school when he is old enough. If he loves the Berkeley school and we can afford it/get enough assistance we will continue there. I think it would be good to expand your search beyond Berkeley and Oakland. You may need to look into areas that are "up and coming" like Maxwell Park or the Richmond annex. Homes in the Richmond  annex seem to go for between 500-700k and in el Cerrito are probably more around 6-850k.  

I can only speak for the Richmond Annex/ El Cerrito since that is where we are now and where I have the most experience. In the annex most of the homes are on the smaller side, but there is a home down the street that recently sold and was closer to 2000 sf. there are larger options in El Cerrito. The annex is located in between El Cerrito Plaza and El Cerrito del Norte Bart station, and the area is zoned for El cerrito public schools which are fine. In fact I know a lot of people that are very happy with them.  Despite Richmond's very negative reputation, the annex is extremely safe. Lately ive heard of people having packages stolen off of there porches and occasional car break ins, but when I lived in Berkeley near the campus, the crime was much worse.  I feel safe walking around at all hours. If you live in the southern part of the Richmond annex you will be within walking distance to EC plaza, Albany bowl, the farmers market, etc. We live in the central annex and are a 10 minute walk from the EC pool, the library, some small shops on San Pablo and two great parks. There is a lot of development along San Pablo in our area and I have high hopes that with all the building they are doing, even more amenities will come into the area.  In the hilly part of the annex, many houses have breathtaking views of the Golden Gate Bridge and the Bay. I feel very, very lucky to live here. I love Berkeley, but there are other great places to live in the area.  This is one of them. 

Check out El Cerrito, especially around Harding Elementary. It's cute, flat and walkable (including to the Plaza Bart station).

problems: not a lot of inventory. Also, houses tend to be on the small side.

best of luck!

I would consider El Cerrito.  You can get a 2-3 bedroom for that price; however, it is very competitive.  They have two BART stations and it will get you to the city in about half hour.

Dear Frustrated:

I feel for you. We were able to buy years ago and I do wonder how people do it now. The situation you describe is part of why I believe we are near another peak and are in for a correction. It happens regularly. However, there are no guarantees. If you want to buy now, I would suggest looking at El Cerrito. You mention kids but not schools. If public schools are an issue, than El Cerrito might be preferable to West Oakland. I think Emeryville schools are pretty good. 

Best of luck.

It's not the sexiest place to live, especially if you are used to Oakland/Berkeley, but have you considered living further out, like Castro Valley?  The community is safe, good schools, parks, not much else (no real shopping and very few decent restaurants), but still semi-affordable.  It's probably more than an hour's drive to SF, but does have a BART station. 
 

I've mentioned it before, there is the Richmond Annex. As our son-in-law says, "El Cerrito living at Richmond prices".

When our daughter there had a child, a neighbor on the next block brought over a large flag of a stork, embroidered with the names of all the children born within a couple of blocks in the last 20 years. For our daughter and son-in-law to embroider next.

Is there any other neighborhood in the Bay area with a tradition like that? Seems at times the Richmond Annex is frozen in time, like a 1950's neighborhood, where parents embroider a shared stork flag with names of their new children. Most neighborhoods today far more sophisticated than that, perhaps their loss.

Richmond Annex has El Cerrito Natural Foods too, and the Annex deli next door, both on the Richmond side of the San Pablo sidewalk. And both as sophisticated and as up to date as you might want. Also BART on the other side of San Pablo. Richmond Annex is quite a stimulating combination. And lower home prices.

You aren't chasing the impossible. It just likely that your standards of "decent school" and "safe to walk around with kids" are distorted. You want caviar on a Jiffy peanut butter budget. I'm in 94606. There's a 3 bedroom/2 bath house around the corner listed for $525,000 right now. Even with a bidding war, it's in your price range.

Hello,

Richmond Annex or parts of El Cerrito. We live in the Annex. Make sure when you make your move that you are in a part of El Cerrito or the Richmond Annex where you are Zoned for El Cerrito High School,Not Kennedy or Richmond. We are within that zone but we know of some people who aren't (thought they were) and the current Principal has hinted that the district may try and re-zone such that ECHS will have a smaller area to draw from in the future. This is due to the fact that ECHS has "recovered" its earlier not-so-hotso reputation (the administration of ECHS drives me nuts sometimes but that's a different story, and it's a good school). Fairmont, the elementary used to be kind of ugh, but has recovered over the last several years and is considered a desirable school. 

. We've lived in the Annex for close to twenty years. Driving into the city never takes more than an hour, BART is a ten minute walk from our house, the transbay bus is about 7 minutes walk. Walk scores around here are high- there are a lot of places we walk to and children can walk to on their own. There are a lot of "regular people" in our neighborhood, though prices have gone up enough (from less than 300K to more like 750K); that may change. 

I would recommend Albany but even with your funds, you may have missed the boat for that one, especially if you want 3 bedrooms. It's pretty safe here. Kensington might also be a bit of a reach but is pretty nice. At any rate I would move on things soon b/c when I got to open houses in my neighborhood, I again and again hear the refrain of "We live in the city and our agent says this (Richmond Annex) is a hot neighborhood (Still affordable).

-Chillin' in the RA.

Hello,

I understand your frustration. I'm a Realtor and at your price point, you may still have some options.Don't give up until you have tried!

I would suggest Laurel District, Maxwell Park El Cerrito, some areas of the Richmond Hills. Of course it is very personal. You should go see this areas, talk to the neighbors. Feel free to contact me and I can send you listings. Or call me and we can chat., and for sure I can drive you around, take you to see some homes.

Just interview different Realtors, you can choose someone who understands your needs and wants. It won't take too long for you to see if you like this alternatives and then you can make a decision on leaving the Bay Area.

Best of lucks,

Mariedda Grynbal

Mgrynbal [at] aol.com

Perhaps I'm giving away one of the best kept secrets in the East Bay..  We moved to Hayward about a year ago and we are very happy with our decision.  My husband works in SOMA and if he takes Bart, he can be in the city in about an hour.  If he takes the ferry, he can be there in a little over an hour but it's a very relaxing ride.

There are still areas in Hayward that are affordable if you have $140k down payment.  And having lived in Oakland as a home owner and now the same in Hayward, I can say that we much prefer Hayward as far as governance, taxes, level of public service, amenities, safety, etc compared to Oakland.  It doesn't have much of a night life, good eats, shopping, etc. so if you think you'll miss those big city activities, then Hayward might seem a little too quaint.  

Judy

You might want to think about this in steps -- start with a two bedroom house and then move to something bigger after you've built up some equity. The other thing is that with a house your children will have outdoor space, so they don't need as much indoor space. Sharing a room works for many, and there are fairly creative ways to subdivide one if you need to. There are some decent neighborhoods in N. West Berkeley and El Cerrito where you could do buy a 2-bedroom in your price range. One big advantage of a closer-in housing unit is that when your children get older they can be more independent -- in the suburbs they will need you to drive them everywhere.

Just wanted to say that I can absolutely relate to your frustration. My husband and I make a decent salary, similar to yours, and are stuck in our 1 br condo with 2 kids because we can't afford to rent or buy anywhere else. What we've come to realize is that it doesn't matter what your salary is, it's the quality of life and cost of living that matter... what you have in your bank account at the end of the day... which for us... despite making the most money we ever have, is close to nil. So, that's fantastic that you've been able to save that much money so far!

I understand your frustration with not getting help from parents. I never cared if our parents helped us financially but found myself feeling resentful that despite being retired and living less than 20 minutes away, they did not help us with our kids, not even for a few hours a week, when other friends' parents watch their preschool aged kids full time. It's cost us an arm and a leg to pay for childcare but I try to remind myself to stop having a pity party and comparing my situation to others. It was our choice to have two kids and it's our responsibility to care for them. We have to take ownership of the choices we make. We can't change the housing market, so we can be angry and dejected or we can do something about it. I hear many families, especially with 2+ kids, are leaving the Bay Area and that's probably what we will end up doing too. Yes, this will require a job change for my husband with a greatly reduced salary. But what's the point of a big salary if you're still broke?

Thank you all for your comments to date. 

It's comforting to know that we're not alone. It's helpful to be reminded of great things we have (good jobs, healthy kids, our health, amazing rental home in one of the best neighborhoods in Oakland at below market price, happy marriage, etc.)

We'll look into Alameda, El Ceritto, Richmond Annex, Dimond, Laurel. Walkability is important for us, but we are beginning to accept that we probably will need to give up walkability We might not be able to walk to shops but we still want to take a neighborhood stroll, so we'd like a safe area. We are a bit afraid of condo's and townhomes, because my husband and I are both musicians. We used to live in an apartment before we had kids and our neighbors complained a lot. I don't think our music is horrible. We used to play paid gigs regularly before we had kids, but I guess some people didn't enjoy hearing us play string and horn instruments. Speaking with different realtors may be helpful. I commute by BART to Civic Center and my husband's work is not near BART, so he drives into San Francisco. We're hoping to keep the commute within 1 hour door-to-door. Our jobs are not flexible and due to the highly specialized area of work, there aren't a lot of employment options out there. In addition, work-from-home arrangement at our companies is rare. [No one works from home at our companies.]

We have one child in Kindergarten and one child in preschool. We were paying $4000/month childcare until last year when our older child started kindergarten. It was terribly expensive to pay $7500 on rent and childcare every month. We are very happy that we now pay preschool tuition for one kid. We have a babysitter who does after school pick-up, because neither of us can get out of work in time to make the 6 pm pick-up time, which adds expense. We knew we couldn't afford 2 kids and weren't planning to have 2 kids but kid #2 happened miraculously and completely by surprise. Both my husband's and my bosses have commented that we seemed to be missing too many days (2 kids = double the sickness) or aren't in the office long enough, because we want to come home and see our kids before bedtime AND want to limit the childcare expense, as the longer we stay at work, the more money we have to pay the babysitter. Of course, we are exempt employees, so we don't get paid more if we stay longer in the office. 

One person told us to look at our expenses and save more. We are really trying and are meeting with a financial planner to help us trim the fat even more. I haven't bought new clothes for myself in 2 years, and we try to get hand-me-downs from friends for our kids' clothes as much as possible. It's not easy to save when in addition to rent and childcare, we also have to send money to our parents and grandparents. In 2 years, our younger child will go to elementary school, and hopefully we can speed up the saving. We had never head of SoFi before, but it seems like a great platform for us. 

We have thought about the possibility of moving closer to my husband's family. Unfortunately, he's from a small rural town in Arkansas. We will not have the job opportunities that we have here. I don't think living 2 hours away (nearest city from his hometown) from the in-laws will be much help in terms of childcare support. 

Wow, that's crazy. I have lived in hayward for 15 years now, and I love it. It took a major attitude adjustment on my part, because Berkeley was pretty much the center of my universe back then. I'm a single mom, public school teacher - trust me, you can make this work. 

Hi

We LOVE El Cerrito.  We have kids in El Cerrito schools too.  Don't look only at test scores. These are highly correlated to poverty and don't tell a whole story.  Go and visit and tour. We absolutely love their diversity and believe it will take our kids far.  Also, Mira Vista area as well. Great principal and staff.   Also look at North and East Richmond.   

See you around the neighborhood!