Trouble Getting Along with the Neighhbors

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Archived Q&A and Reviews

Questions

Feeling excluded by neighbors

May 2013

I need help figuring out neighbors' behavior. We have a good relationship with our neighbors on either side. All the families have kids about the same age. The adults meet up fairly regularly for scheduled events. But we don't get included on simple daily activities, for eg going to the park, going for a walk etc. When I have tried to contact them with possible plans, my calls and texts go unanswered. If we are both in our backyards (we share fences) they don't bother greeting me but will sort of answer if I reach out. On a number of occasions I have invited their kids over but they usually make excuses why the kids cannot come over.

What I have trouble understanding is that when we run into each other and have a conversation,its cordial and even friendly. Its stops there though. I get the feeling they are keeping me (us) at an arms length. I'm trying my best to figure out if anything I said or did offended them. Needless to say I am quite bothered by this.

As background I work full time and they all don't. Our kids don't go to the same school also. I grew up in a community where families were close and i still remain close friends with kids from the neighborhood though we are scattered all over the country. I am looking for help understanding this dichotomy. confused neighbor

You must be living next to my neighbors!! We have the same situation, but worse they even asked us to stop our kids from coming over to try to play with theirs. We have now just given up. They have their own social group which includes the kids that are allowed to play with their kids. They don't play with any neighborhood kids!!

This is a problem in some neighborhoods. Some so bad that you might never socialize with your nieghbors (I have friends on the Peninsula where most of the nieghbors only say hi or bye).

I agree when we were growing up our parents were friends with the neighbors, we played with the kids on our street. But I've lived in a couple of cities around the Bay Area and have run into neighbors like this. They live in the neighborhood becuase they like their house but have no intention of considering the neighbors as part of their or their kids social group.

We have just learned to deal with the neighbors that do include us in their social group and our kids play with the other neighborhood kids.

Not a solution, but just modern reality. Living with unfriendly neighbors

I'd ask each neighbor separately if you have in some way offended them. Tell them you notice you're not included and you wondered why. I did this once years ago and though it was hard, I found out that the people I questioned thought I wanted to be left alone because I was kind of quiet and kept to myself. You never know. If it bugs you, speak up. anon

It sounds like their kids are not enjoying being around your kids. Kids are like that. You might ask them if that is the case. Be truly curious about what they think the issues are, and see if there is, perhaps, some modifications of behavior that might help your children be nicer to be around. It may be something simple like ''your kids only want to play games that my kids don't want to play''. Remember that, just because they are the same age and near each other, they may not feel compatible. Be curious.

You should not assume that you have offended them somehow. I suspect the main issue is that you work fulltime and they don't. That's huge. They are home during the day, so they have a lot more opportunities to build a relationship with each other. Plus, for people who are home all day, their main adult relationships are with other parents who are also at home during the day. So those friendships have high value. I'm a working mom now, but I spent a few years as a stay at home mom, and during those years the other moms I saw during the day were the only thing that kept me sane! I still had my after-work friends and neighbors but I was much closer to my day-time friends. Now as a working mom, I have my work friends and my kids' school friends, and my neighbors, and my log-time pals - a much bigger variety, though less time to spend with them.

Scheduling is completely different too, when you stay at home vs. when you work. When I was at home with little kids, I thought nothing of showing up at a park at random times to see who was there. I had time to hang out waiting for that friend who always ran late, or just strike up a conversation with someone new. It's different now that I work. Playdates and social events happen only on the weekends, and occasionally after school, and they are planned in advance. My leisure time is precious, so I am picky about how I spend it.

Keep having social get-togethers with the grownups, and keep saying hi when you see them. Your kids go to a different school, so that's another reason why you're not going to have the close ties that the other families have. But you can still be a good friend and a good neighbor. local mom

You grew up in a neighborhood where neighbors were close and like family. Perhaps your current neighbors do not want to be like family. Perhaps they (to use a california phrase) need some space. They are likely glad to be friends and chat with you, but not every time they are in their yard and not every time they go for a a neighborhood walk. Expiriment with not talking to them everytime you are in your yards at the same time. Try pretending that they are not there unless they initiate the conversation. And if they initiate a yard to yard conversation, try to keep your side of it cordial and brief. Also their relationship with each other may be closer than their relationship with you. Try to accept that, if so. If you are someone who carries out long conversations and has challenges with brief hellos, or with ending conversations, perhaps this makes them not want to begin a conversation all the time. when you talk with them do you try to rope them into a time commitment? If so, try laying off scheduling anything with them for a month unless they initiate it. In general, consider backing off for a bit, yet still being cordial but brief. Let them initiate. Leave room for them to express their level of comfort with communication and joint activities. If you pay attention, leave room for them to initiate and are very patient, you may learn a lot about their preferences for communication and activities. This may be the best way to nurture your long-term relationship. Another neighborly neighbor

You *have* figured out your neighbors: ''I get the feeling they are keeping me (us) at an arms length.'' That's just them, and it probably has nothing to do with you. Be yourself, and let them be themselves. Good fences

Hi there. Not knowing the neighbors or you, it sounds simply like you guys don't really click as friends. From what you have said I doubt you've done anything ''wrong.'' We have some casual acquaintances who have made overtures to be better friends, but my hubby and I are not that interested in getting to know them better. We both find it hard to really connect with the husband, though he is a very nice guy and has a lot of admirable qualities. We enjoy chatting with him casually now and then, but don't really want to take it that step further to hanging out a park, sharing a meal, etc. In short, we really don't want to be friends in that way. That spark of friendship is just not there, similar in some ways to a romantic spark -- someone may be attractive and nice but you just aren't that interested. So my advice is to enjoy the easy chit chat you have, don't worry that you've done something wrong, and let it go. As long as they are cordial neighbors that is the best you can hope for. It's not you, it's them

The fact that you work and they don't, and that your kids go to a different school could easily be the issue here. Less contact, less of a shared world means you're not really as close. Also, if they all go to public school and yours goes to a private, there could be perceived or assumed snobbishness on your part. Unfair but it could be there, possibly they may have assumptions they're not aware of. Your continuing hospitality and friendliness may be the thing that changes that in them.

I wonder if you could just ask one or both of the moms, I know I don't get a chance to see you all as much as I'd like. I just wanted to check in and make sure everything's ok with [your kid's name]... are there any issues or difficulties with him I should know about? If they say, Oh no, no... Then just say, ''Oh, OK, I was just wondering,'' and drop it.

You could add, ''Is there something I've done or said to upset or offend you?'' See how it feels. It could make them defensive as it seems to point to their avoidance behavior, or maybe it could be part of the question about your kid. You could quickly add, ''I know Johnny going to ABC School takes us a little out of the loop (make it situational and not personal) and that's a little at odds with wanting to be part of the neighborhood like when I was a kid... I just don't know quite how to deal with that.''

I guess I feel the different school and your full-time work issue is probably it. So maybe acknowledging that right up front, at least the school part along with your desire to be part of the neighborhood, and your willingness to hear if there is some specific problem, at least gets it out there. - open the dialogue, stay friendly, no rush

Do your neighbors socialize with each other? It may just be that they keep to themselves or socialize with their families or people they know from church, kids sports, etc. It's a time issue. We live in a neighborhood with about 6 other families with kids on our street. My kids used to play with them but don't anymore. Most of them joined the local country club and are also families transferred here for work. They are their own community. Our community is our local families and people with kids that we have known from work, childhood, etc. My husband has always lived in this area.

Also, we hang out with the sports team families a lot. It's easy to grab a pizza with them after a lacrosse game or for the kids to have impromptu playdates.

Also, I know that one of my children is very headstrong and so that may have contributed to her not wanting to play with the neighborhood kids -- she can't always have her way. Don't necessarily take it personally.

They don't want to be friends with you, but they are willing to be friendly. It may be that they feel like they have enough friends and obligations already. Or maybe they don't like your personality. Or maybe you are a lousy neighbor. Does you dog bark too much? Do you let your kids pick their flowers? Does you cat poop in their yard? Do you burn wood and have bbq's all the time, creating air pollution? Do you start up your power lawn mower at 8 am on Saturday morning? Is your front yard an eyesore? Try being a better neighbor and see if that helps. You could just ask them, but most people don't like being put on the spot like that. Anon

 

Not fitting in with kind but conservative neighbors

June 2007

I have very kind, loving conservative neighbors. I am usually very vocal about my opinions but I feel like I am being judged and so will my sons. I have not put them into any organizations that I feel are discrimanatory, religious, or sexist. My neighbors have remarked how this is too bad and sad for my sons. The boys do not seem to miss out to me. I feel like moving to a more liberal area or trying to find more like minded liberals in my own neighborhood, but how ? I fear that the majority of people around me will judge my family for being anti war, pro gay marriage, agnostic and non- conformists in general. How do I teach my sons my values when they seem like unpopular values? Liberal Parent

I think the best way to truly teach the value of open-mindedness (which is what non-discrimination is all about- right?) is to accept all people, whether their opinions are the same as yours or not. Your kids will learn a much higher value than any specific political point of view by seeing that you respect your neighbors as equals, whether they are liberal or conservative.

It may be a challenge, but that's what peace is- co-existence with our neighbors. You may not feel that your present neighbors give you the respect you'd like when it comes to politics, but try to let that be their problem. Kind and loving neighbors of any political persuasion are not a dime a dozen! anon

First off, when it comes to neighbors, my goal is to be on good terms with them. And that sometimes means keeping my opinions to myself. I don't want to create a situation where differences of opinion puts a wall between them and me. I have to live with these folks 24X7. I talk politics only to close friends that I know won't be offended by my opinions, or where I know we can have a spirited debate, but we know the differences won't get in the way of our friendship. With people I don't know well, that's always a risk. Secondly, regarding my children and values, I want to teach my children how to think, not what to think, and sometimes the teaching of values tends to be what to think. Anon

Dear fellow Liberal-Progressive, I grew up in a very conservative part of the country, and I was one of about three liberals I knew living within a hundred-mile radius. My first academic job was in a city where Bible-belt and conservative sentiments also reigned. It was challenging to be in those situations, but I think that it is a good thing for some liberals to live among conservatives and vice versa. The Balkanization of our country into ''red'' and ''blue'' states (or even counties, when it comes to California) is not healthy. People begin to demonize the ''other side'' and lose sight of the fact that most people are decent, like your conservative neighbors. It would be much more valuable for your boys, in my opinion, to learn how to disagree politely and to argue a point convincingly than it is for them to have their views stand unchallenged. I cringe when my young son comes home from school parroting the slams against George W. that he's heard on the playground. I didn't vote for W, can't stand him, but I would like for there to be more dialogue and less diatribe. We won't achieve it through isolation. If you don't want for them to belong to the local Scout troop because of the BSA's position on homosexuality, for instance, don't shrink from saying so. Say that you're sorry that the Scouts are missing out on great potential members like your boys, but that you don't think your boys are missing anything essential by protesting against that policy. I had discussions like this throughout my youth and I still have them when I go home. Yes, I am ridiculed and considered fuzzy and misguided by some, and I let them laugh. They'll laugh at you, too. But if you hold your views and ALSO act as a good neighbor, an active member of the community, a loyal friend, a good mom etc., you will have given them an example of a liberal who is also a good person. As they have shown you that conservatives can be good neighbors. hang in... dialogue is better than flight

My two cents? You have to ignore your neighbors and trust in the validity of your own values. Just because they don't fit into traditional labels, YOU know they're true for you, right? You will never be defined from outside anyway. And if they can't agree to disagree or not talk about politics, religion, whatever it is, then maybe they're not people you'd be really close with. They are only neighbors, so it should be easy to find many other things to talk about. Trust Yourself

Well, maybe it will be easier to teach your values *with* conservative neighbors.

Here's what I mean. Let's say neighbor says to you & kids, ''why aren't you a boy scout?'' When you get home, you can explain to your kids why you have made the decision you did, why you feel it's important to not support that organization. It might even foster a discussion of what your family might do to change the boy scouts or find a similar organization you can support. Would you have this discussion if you didn't have these neighbors?

Essentially, if these are good, kind neighbors who care about you and your children, then this is an opportunity to expose them to the kind of diversity of viewpoints that we liberals should embrace....right?

I think that surrounding yourself with people just like you will only teach your children to be conservative. Diversity of all kinds is important.

actually your neighbors are right. It is sad for your boys. kids need to be a part of their surroundings and peer groups, no matter what those peer groups are about. it sucks to feel different from the other kids because of your parents politics. It makes you want to become super-conservatives later in life just so that you can define yourself in opposition to your parents. It's the natural way for kids. Let them join the Boy Scouts, or the golf team or whatever. At least let them know they can if they want to. They'll learn almost everything they know from you, and a lot, too, from the rest of the world. and they'll pick and choose what makes sense to them as they become adults. That's what makes a well-rounded well-informed person. Or else, move to a place where your kids won't have to deal with competing viewpoints. But either way, let them be involved in their community. Don't be conservative with your liberalism. Alex

Let them talk. Be open to what the have to say. Then when you have to respond you can say something like, ''Wow, there are so many activities for kids these days, we just have to put a limit otherwise Sam just gets burnt out.'' If pushed, you can also say ''Morals and ethics are very important to us. We work with our daughter in everyday situations to help her think about the moral implications of each situation.'' Then talk about unfairness at the park or an injustice such as a child being hit or left out of a group.

Liberal people also need to understand that other people who are conservative, even narrow-minded, want their kids and yours to turn out to be good people. The definition of good is just different. Liberal Mom too

Hmm, how do you teach your children values when they seem like unpopular values? Well, I assume you hold your values because they seem right to you, not just because they are ''popular''. So explain to your children your reasons. At the same time, of course other people will judge your values. You are judging your neighbor's values and there is nothing wrong with that. Not everyone agrees! You will never move somewhere where everyone agrees! You need to learn and then you need to teach your children how to get along with people you don't completely agree with, especially when they are ''kind and loving''. Is it really necessary to be outspoken on every issue with your neighbors who you know don't agree? I can't recall anytime I've discussed gay marriage with my neighbors. If they say it's too bad your sons don't do boy scouts (I assume that is what you are referring to), just say they have lots of other activities and let it drop! Many people of all philosophies find it easiest to never discuss religion or politics in casual conversation. anon

Having read so many posts on BPN in which people describe horrendous problems with their neighbors - noise, crime, vicious dogs - I think it would be a huge mistake to move over something like this. You could easily end up living next door to a like-minded person who has an unfortunately predilection for playing the trombone at 2 am. I'm as left as they come, but I'd rather live next to a quiet GWB supporter than a loud liberal any day. Fran

Hi, where on earth do you live? It can't be in Berkeley. I can't even imagine what you describe in the Bay Area at large, unless you are very far east. Anit-war, pro-gay marriage, agnostic? Not unusual at all. I'm a liberal by almost everyone's definition, but I sometimes feel too conservative for Berkeley because I don't think every business in the city should be a non-profit. Anyway, finding like-minded neighbors in Berkeley or surrounding cities shouldn't be a problem for you. rb

How do you know that the ''conservative'' organizations in your area haven't changed with the times and have like-minded parents and kids involved in them these days? Your neighbors should keep their nose out of your parenting business, but still, most organizations, like Boy Scouts, and others, are comprised of parents like yourself----there are plenty of gay parents of Boy Scouts, etc. These organizations serve as a social contact for your children, too----being around and doing things with other kids is important. Even if your son has a mohawk, he'd be welcome in most organizations today----maybe with a mohawk he'd be of even more interest than the other kids. It sounds like you are making judgments without first checking these organizations out. You and your boys should only join organizations you feel comfortable with, but you should attend a meeting to check it out first before making judgments. Then, when your neighbors inquire again, you can tell them you attended one of the meetings with your sons and it just wasn't a good fit.

Good luck----theres's so much for kids in this area, it's hard to imagine not finding something that fits your categories. Anon

Do you choose your values on the basis of what's popular or not? Of course not. Teach them to stand up for what they believe in. CC

Stay the course. It sounds like you are already doing a great job of teaching your values to your children. Who cares what people think of your beliefs.

That said, I fear that you being 'very vocal' about your opinions may be coming across as strident. What you may be perceiving as 'judgment,' may actually be dislike. (Though from your posting, my impression is that you are a thinking, kind person) Personally, I hate being lectured by people -- unasked -- on their opinions, even if I agree. If you volunteered that 'the war is stupid' or even that you are 'anti-war' simply because I mentioned in passing that my husband was out of town for his Navy Reserve weekend, then I would probably be a bit put off. However, if we were having an interesting conversation, the topic of Iraq came up and we sensed that we were simpatico in some of our beliefs, I would hope that you would mention that you took the kids to an anti-war rally and I may mention in return that I think that every person in America who drives a vehicle getting less than 25 MPG freeway needs to look in the mirror every morning and say, ''today a GI is gong to die so that I can fill my gas tank.'' Would I say that to anyone who I didn't sense already agreed with me (and, yes, my husband of ten years active duty and thus far, five years navy reserve service does agree with my statement, though he phrases it a bit more diplomatically)? Heck no! That would be rude. Additionally, he or she would think that I am a freak and probably dangerous.

Also, no matter where you live, you are going to find that you hold some unpopular beliefs and that you will have battles to fight. Right now I live in a town where everyone eagerly recycles, composts, commutes on bicycles, derives wardrobes from REI's offerings, buys hormone free milk (delivered by a milkman, no less) and eats organic. We are a liberal stronghold in one of the red-est/politically scariest of states. Sounds like nirvana, UNTIL YOU HEAR that the median home price is way over a million dollars. All of the kids go to public school, but the parking lot is filled with Range Rovers and Hummers. How do you explain that Daddy's $200,000/year isn't 'poor?' How am I going to teach my children about reasonable expectations? The value of a dollar? -anon

You stated that, ''I am usualy very vocal about my opinions but I feel like I am being judged...'' It does go with the territory. If you are vocal about your opinions you will be judged. No matter what, we all make judgements and are judged each and every day, it's unavoidable. You do have control over when to express your opinion and when to stick with non-controversial chitchat.

You didn't mention how you feel about the issue of diversity, and this, as uncomfortable as it may feel for you, is about diversity. To segregate your family from others with varying opinions is to isolate yourself and your family from true diversity. The ability to have these differences of opinions and yet coexist nonviolently in the same community is a wonderful thing. One of my most enduring friendships is with someone whose opinions could not be more different than my own. We have had some wonderful and heartfelt debates, with the security of knowing that we long ago agreed to disagree and be respectful with each other about it. Would you really want to live in a bubble where everyone thinks exactly alike?

Your children will learn your values by virtue of being your children. When they are older, they will use what you taught them to establish their own values, just as you did (whether similar or different from your own parents). If you protect them from different points of view, they might be a bit shocked when they have to function in the real world later. Another Liberal Parent

We moved to a conservative area from a much more liberal one a few years ago. Don't assume anyone is judging you. You will get more respect by sticking to your ethics and not judging anyone for theirs. For example, Boy Scouting is HUGE where I live. Seriously, we crank out 8 to 10 Eagle Scouts a year in our very small community. When we moved here, some neighbors encouraged my son to join their troop, and we declined. I tried to just say no thank you, but they pushed it very slightly. I finally replied that I didn't agree with the organization's position on gays. They replied that at that young age, no one really cares about that stuff. I replied that I didn't want my son to invest energy and emotion into an organization that might one day kick him or his friends out for just being who they've always been. I added that my son does other activities that give him some of the same things he might get from scouts. That was the end of it. We're still friendly and all. We are liberal, pro-gay marriage, etc., and we have met people like us and different from us. Again, just chill, and continue to be yourself and emit a positive image for your beliefs. Who knows? Maybe your neighbors actually think, ''Hey that new family is so liberal, but their positions are well considered and they aren't preachy.'' That's how I think of some of my conservative neighbors.

Unfriendly next-door neighbor disliked by the other neighbors

Oct 2005

We have a neighbor lady that well to say it nicely is difficult to deal with ( just very nosy and unpleasant) but she has had 2 different late, large, loud parties at her home in the last few months. One was late- July and one was just this last Saturday night. Our problem is; the loud music, loud yelling and carrying on, many many cars parked out front, cigarette butts thrown into the grass area next to our home and around ( middle of our houses ) and the first party lasted till after 2 AM and this last weekends party was about the same. She lives alone. We have not spoken to her about either of the parties nor plan to as we want NO trouble but we are annoyed and like I said; she has just come off to my husband and I as being very rude, unfriendly and just not nice. We have done or said nothing to make her feel that way but apparently her uncle told us once that she just thinks the neighborhood in general dislikes her and has had hate mail sent to her before we moved here last May. What do we do if anything? Any ideas or suggestions that you might have we would appreciate. We have never had troubles with neighbors before and like all our other neighbors just fine and hate having a unpleasant situation living right next door but do not want to start waves either! We live in the Oakland Hills. Please help someone...anyone? annoyed family!

This woman needs a lot of compassion. Try to understand that if she is used to people disliking her, she probably has her defenses up rather than being open, so that it won't hurt again when she finds out that yet another set of neighbors dislikes her.

I personally think you should befriend her and expect it to take a LONG time before she opens up to you and lets her defenses down. She needs someone on her side.

Also, if she's only had a couple parties in a few months, well, that's not so bad. She sorta has a right to do so. Instead of complaining, in the meantime, build a strong rapport with her, and far down the road as you get closer, ask her to give you a heads up when she's planning an event, so you can make sure to not plan anything for early the next day. Good luck.

Sounds like you have tried to be reasonable, and they are not.

The law is on your side, but only if you are willing to use it. California Civil Code defines Public Nusiance Laws (more than one neighbor complaining), and Private Nusiance Laws, (if it only bothers one neighbor).

Cal Civ Code  3479. What constitutes a nuisance

Anything which is injurious to health,including, but not limited to, the illegal sale of controlled substances, or is indecent or offensive to the senses, or an obstruction to the free use of property, so as to interfere with the comfortable enjoyment of life or property, or unlawfully obstructs the free passage or use, in the customary manner, of any navigable lake, or river, bay, stream, canal, or basin, or any public park, square, street, or highway, is a nuisance.

Cal Civ Code  3480. Public nuisance

A public nuisance is one which affects at the same time an entire community or neighborhood, or any considerable number of persons, although the extent of the annoyance or damage inflicted upon individuals may be unequal.

The police will not get involved until you take action first. You get get a restraining order, it takes an hour or two. Once obtainined you have something the police can enforce immediatly.

You can also take them to small calims court using the nusiance laws asking for $5,000 per person per residence. If you can get other neighbors involved they too can request $5,000 in damages using the Public Nusance Laws.

Your other option is to take a holiday the next time they have a party.

I had a similar problem with a bunch of drunks who would have loud parties late into the morning. The neighborhood tried to reason with them to no avail. We tried using the police, but they said no laws were being violated.

(An officer then took me aside and muttered you know there are civil ways you can solve the problem.) One restraining order and a small claims action is all it took and the problem was solved. (The restraining order is in effect for three years.) If they should ever have a loud party, one call to the police and off to jail with them. Very easy solution to a frustrating problem. Anon

I can understand that your situation is difficult, but it is possible to call the police and lodge a complaint anonymously when these parties are going on. There was a similar situation in our neighbhorhood with loud parties, I called the police many times to complain, as did other neighbors. At a certain point, the dispatcher asked me if I wanted to file a formal complaint in which case I would have to register my name, but until that time, I was always given the option of complaining anonymously. Good luck. anonymous

Have you heard about East Bay Community Mediation? Its a local non-profit organization that uses trained community volunteer mediators to help bring about peaceful resolution of neighborhood concerns just like the one you describe. You can do no harm by finding out a little more about how mediation works -- the process helps promote communication (often the very thing that is lacking when problems like you're experience arise). EBCM charges a very low administrative fee for the service and often waive the fee if people cannot afford to pay. It's a great resource serving Oakland and other east bay residents. Check it out at www.ebcm.org or call 548-2377. I hope this helps.

It sounds like you are a bit harsh on your neighbor. Two parties since July isn't exactly a lot. Isn't she allowed to have a party now and then ? Also, having an unpleasant and nosy neighbor doesn't sound like the worst possible situation. She just sounds annoying. Why not ignore her personal traits and call the police when the parties go into the wee hours ? -anon