Defiant and very active 4 yr old

My suggestion to you would be to avoid the temptation to brush it off and blame the school.  I also have a very rowdy and active boy and I realized that I was not holding him to high enough expectations for his behavior, and I was actually doing him a disservice by doing so.  I brushed off a lot of his behavior with, "He's still so young," but after spending time with other children of the same gender and age I was able to see that his behavior was out of line with the norms of that age and I could see that he would need correction before it started to negatively impact his ability to make friends and get along with his teachers.  

If you trusted this school enough to send your boy to them, I would trust them when they say his behavior needs to be changed.  What worked for my boy was a lot of time outs paired with explanations for why he needed to listen.  His school also has a long rest time, and we explained that even though he doesn't need the rest, his younger friends still need it for their growing brains and bodies and he was preventing them from getting what they needed by being noisy.  We also explained that even though we allow a lot of negotiation at home, his teachers have to take care of more than just one child and they can't have long negotiations with one child because it means they can't take care of the other students.  With a lot of consistency and conversation he has greatly improved his behavior and I'm not worried any more about him starting Kindergarten next year.  

You really will be doing him such a big help to help him get control of his behavior and emotions now.  My oldest child was just invited to a birthday party today, and she said that everyone else in class was invited except the three boys who are always getting in trouble.  It would be so, so painful for me to see my son excluded like that, so I'm glad we listened when we were told his behavior was out of the ordinary.

It's hard, but so worth it.  Good luck!

I also have a very strong willed child. I had to think a lot about the kind of environment she would do well in, and I picked a play based preschool with a lot of free play time and outdoor time. I noticed you mentioned he only goes 2 days a week. I have heard it's an easier adjustment when a child goes at least 4 days a week. At 4 years old many children no longer nap, so perhaps you could find a program with no naps? My daughter's preschool had optional naps (optional for the parents to decide that is.)

I would move your kid into a different preschool.  Some preschools are better able to handle discipline issues and help children learn to behave and prepare them for schools, and some are more focused on academic and social learning but cannot deal well with kids with discipline difficulties or who are more active than others.  I would not try to force the preschool to keep your child since they obviously don't want him there and are not well equipped to handle his personality.  A move to a different preschool will be best.  Good luck. 

I think it takes a lot longer than a month to transition to preschool. Where my son hasn't been acting out quite in the same ways you have mentioned, he is definitely going through some control issues specific to what he can and cannot do. We hit a rough period and I thought, too, we were going to have to pull him out of school and wait until the new year.

We've had to start using different words and explaining appropriate behavior (vs. not) as well as framing school in a good light, rather than obligation b/c Mom and Dad go to work. The teachers have all told me to give it until the holidays as it does take a time commitment followed through with consistent behavior on everyone's part. Learn the words the teachers use at school and use them at home, what lessons are they teaching him at school? Can you reinforce those at home in any way?

Where he does need to get along in school, I've also tried to introduce things that are within his control so he feels empowered every day to do his best. These are small things like pick his own clothing (even if it is the same thing, every day) and decide what goes in his lunch box. I don't love the idea of screen time, but if he behaviors appropriately during the day he can have 30 minutes of one of his favorite shows after dinner, etc. Believe me, my son won't be told what to do either. It's always a lengthy conversation into the "why" of things. But after he understands, he will do the right thing. It just takes time and a lot more effort than I originally thought.

I was so concerned over our transition into preschool that I've begun reading The Minds of Boys by Michael Gurian. I haven't completed it yet but it's very enlightening. Don't discredit your instincts...ever! This school potentially may not be a good fit and if not, there will be one out there that is. We have to remember that boys learn differently than girls and teachers tend to reward the girls for good behavior and punish the boys quickly for behavior that is very normal for the age and developmental phase in life. It's OK to be energetic and it's OK to feel uncertain in starting a new school. It's also OK if he won't nap, he just can't disrupt the other kids that do - introduce quiet play. The other thing that turned a corner for us is making extra efforts in organizing play dates with his "new friends" on the weekend.

I feel badly for kids mentioned in the other post that said the three boys weren't invited to the birthday party. That's really awful. It takes a village, a clan, a pack to help our children along. There have been plenty of instances where I've tried and tried on a certain thing and another mom has come in and shown us what their kids do and ...viola, my kid understood right away. 

Give it a bit more time, reach into your empathetic side and don't let the teachers let you into believing there is something wrong out the gate - it's a perfectly normal reaction to a really big transition. 

Good luck! 

Great that you're asking for help here...and wherever else you may be drawn.  AND how wonderful that being 4 years old your son still has an opportunity to learn how to cooperate, how to be kind to others, how to respect others, etc.  It seems to me that what we're seeing unfold nationally is in part, due to men/women being raised without guidance, without healthy love, without an understanding of boundaries (theirs & others') etc.  Thank you for being a good mother.

Find a new school. As a former preschool teacher I think the structure and expectations of this school and your son are not a good match. He might indeed have to learn how to change his behavior, but two days a week is not enough consistency, 2 hours of quiet time is unrealistic for a 4 year old who doesn't need to sleep, and clearly they don't have the skills to help him. You need a program where the teachers have training in social/emotional foundations of learning, effective methods of behavior guidance and where they have alternative activities for children who have outgrown nap. If after 1 month (which on his schedule is only 8 days of school) they are ready to give up on him, I would look elsewhere.

Hello  I don’t know what district you were in but the best advice I can give you is the public school system you have him assessed and his home school district .Public schools have the resources to help you with this Situation. 

My heart broke for you when I read this because it was EXACTLY what I worried about when I sent my similar 3 year old to preschool last year.  He had similar issues with his nanny, and then in daycare, and I had heard horror stories about preschools.  However, I found from visiting preschools and asking pointed questions about how they deal with discipline issues that there was a huge range in how tolerant they were.  It was clear to me within the first 2 minutes which preschools would likely kick out my kid and which would not.  FWIW, we chose to send him to Temple Sinai and it has been great.  Yes, he can be a PITA and he can be disruptive and defiant, however I always get the sense that the teachers truly care about him, recognize his strengths, and are doing their best to help shape him by leveraging his strengths to make him a strong leader.  I've been really happy.  I suggest you take him out of preschool and don't look backward, then start the search for a place that might be more supportive of his challenges.  Also, OT and developmental evaluation may be useful at hte same time in case there are mood or develomental concerns--talk with your pedi about this.

I agree with the previous comment. You might want to contact Bananas, on Claremont Avenue in Oakland - they have referral service and might be able to connect you with a professional to help you with some of the behaviors that you are seeing at home. Sometimes the help of a professional can identify areas that you as a parent do not see and give you pointers. Do you see the same behaviors at home? Were you invited by the school to quietly observe his behavior (i.e without him knowing you were there)? Sometimes, it does help parents/guardian to understand the "at school" behavior. Regarding nap time, at this age, many kids no longer nap - however licensing requires that children are offered 40 to 45mns to nap time/lay down time, after that, they may be taken to another room for quiet activity. It is not reasonable for the school to expect your child to stay in nap room for 2 hours. Also understanding what "school readiness" is is part of the conversation you should have with his next school, so that expectations are clear and the educators should be working with you into meeting goals. Hope this helps.

Have you considered getting him assessed by an occupational therapist for sensory processing issues? Our son had behavior very similar to your's, especially in his first year of preschool which was VERY rough from day one. After understanding his underlying neurological issues, I could see that the classroom wasn't a good set-up for him--it exacerbated all of his sensitivities. The OT assessment also helped us put many seemingly distinct behaviors into a framework and his 1:1 OT sessions help strengthen those areas where he needs extra support to fully develop. Now in his second year of preschool in a different classroom, he is much more able to self-regulate, interact with his peers, stay quiet during nap time, etc. What a relief, and a joy to see. I feel like we are setting him up for success in school and socially for years to come.

We also worked on being consistent with our parenting styles so that 'no' means 'no'. However, this transition to a new style was much easier once we understood and were addressing his underlying needs, and rather than just seeing him as noncompliant or even defiant. Good luck with your journey! I am happy to provide more insight if you would like.

You really need to get a second opinion.  Ideally, a professional from the outside needs to observe your child in his preschool to help you to figure out whether it's the school that's the problem (for example, maybe they don't use positive language or maybe they even use punishments?  Even in 2018, there are some "old school" preschools) OR whether your son has something going on that needs some help.  Or maybe it's both!  At the very least, you need to sit down with the preschool director and teachers and have a detailed discussion to begin sorting everything out.  Also, in my opinion, there shouldn't be a big difference between daycare and preschool at age 4.  My hunch is that the caregivers at your daycare were more highly skilled than the teachers at your new preschool when it comes to working with a slightly trickier child (or one who is slow to adapt and adjust to this new preschool from his happy daycare experience.)  Do you also struggle with him at home?  If you honestly don't, then it sounds like this preschool actually IS the problem.  Can you also ask family and friends and babysitters and your old daycare providers to be completely honest with you and tell you if your son exhibits behavior that is outside of the norm?  If you DO struggle with your son at home, make sure you read The Kazdin Method for Parenting the Defiant Child (Kazdin) and Self-Reg (Shanker).  Positive Discipline may also be helpful.  Other things to consider: a processing disorder or ADD or SPD or ASD or anxiety or any number of diagnosable "disorders"....And one last thing: the teachers should be willing to accommodate a non-sleeping child for 2 hours.  Your son should be allowed to look at books, play quietly, draw, or even go outside.  It is completely unreasonable to expect him to lie down quietly for such a long period of time. 

We have a 3 year old who is also very smart and energetic, according to his teachers. He was in preschool for a few months but we also had to pull him out.

One issue that the school pointed out regarding our son was that he had trouble with transitions - going from one activity to another. He usually wants to keep doing the first activity and can't move as quickly as other kids to the new activity. Perhaps at the preschool they could've given him advanced notice that something new was coming to prepare him. It was only after the school pointed out the transition problem out that we saw the light. He doesn't want to stop circle time to do crafts (he loooves circle time, crafts is too girly for him); he doesn't want to stop playing to get dressed (which we mistakenly read as just he didn't want to listen to us); he doesn't want to leave home to go to school (he was having fun at home, he couldn't understand why we're pulling him away); he's done in the bath but he throws a fit when I try to get him out (he's still playing, he doesn't want to stop); etc etc. He is doing much better now that we mentally prepare him for what's coming up next, so he doesn't feel like he's totally out of control. 

Another trick that has worked for us is that we avoid saying "no" to him. That doesn't mean we spoil him. Instead of telling him "No" or to not do something, we try to convince him something else is the better option.

Instead of "don't pull the cats tail" we say "how about we leave the cat alone?" and quickly find a distraction; Instead of "No more play, you have go nap" we say "After your nap, you get to plaaaaay!!!" It takes a bit of mental work sometimes to figure out how to avoid saying the negative form of something, but our son receives the information much better and with less resistance.

We present choices, A & B, knowing we are ok with either outcome, and let him chose what he wants instead of forcing one on him. For example, eat your broccoli or string beans? If he says no, he doesn't want either, then we say c'mon, if you eat the broccoli, you don't have to eat the string bean! If that doesn't work, then we say pretend like we're surprised that he would make such a grave mistake. But deep down we're ok if he skips both. 

As for where to go from here, I feel your pain. We ended up finding a nanny and she takes him out all day, everyday, to play at the playground, storytime at the library, habitot, fairyland... He's not "learning" in the traditional sense in the classroom his ABC's, but she's teaching him life, how to count things (trees, cars, toys), they read a lot, and he goes at his own pace, transitions at his own pace. He is also able to run off all that energy and be happy.  Good luck to you!

Ok wow... are you ME!??   I know I'm posting on this a bit late but I saw this and just had to reply.   My daughter was kicked out of two preschools for defiant behavior.   She wouldn't do anything asked of her, wouldn't nap, would have serious meltdowns that lasted a long time, etc.    The first school didn't even give notice they just said, "Your child is not welcome back here tomorrow."    Yeah, that was a kick in the pants for a single, full time working parent.    My child was defiance personified.  I felt like I was the about the worst mother on the planet and didn't know how or where to begin.  I was JUST like you:    I didn't know what why this was happening, what to do about it and everything I tried and all the books I read did nothing.  I didn't know who to turn to either.   Then, miraculously through a fate in the universe I found Rebekah Freeling at Wit's End Parenting.   Seriously, my life and the life of  my spirited child is 1000% better.  It's been work, but it's WORKING.   I have the control I need and she has her needs met a well - it's firm but kind.  I'm a better mom.  My kid is 100% happier.  Is she still defiant?  Yes, but it's so much better and has less reason to be defiant in the first place because she's now part of the process, she's getting her needs met now that I finally know what they are --  and I have very skilled ways of dealing with it and so do teachers.  

The reason I recommend her to you is that, not ONLY is she genius with spirited children (my kid was drawn to her like a moth to a light - right from the moment they met)  -  she also works with the child, your child's teacher and school in concert with the parents to get you all on the same side so your child has consistency and the teachers are all on board too.  You don't have to try and teach the teachers - Rebecah is there every step of the way with all of you as a team.  

Look, I rarely make recommendations on here but this is one I stand behind 1000%.  My daughter is thriving.  She made a real and extremely positive difference in our lives, I know she can make one in yours too.    Rebecah can be reached at (510) 619-5920. 

I'm ridiculously late to this party, but this recommendation doesn't really expire.I wish someone had told me this when we were dealing with our very energetic youngest, We missed the interventions that would have helped, and spent time on things that were never going to work.

Spirited/energetic and smart often overlap with giftedness in children.  Gifted  kids are often unprepared to take instructions from adults that haven't been justified-they don't really think that an authority figure says so is enough of a reason to do something. They often give up napping earlier. they more often have sensory issues that make their interactions with school more difficult. Not getting enough stimulation or learning is like being starved for them. If you child is highly verbal for his age, asks sophisticated follow up questions, and prefers to talk to adults rather than his peers, then I'd recommend that you start learning about gifted kids. The Summit centers website is one place to start. Also being aware of this as you are making choice for schooling is really helpful. Also finding some other families who are dealing with the same challenges will be really helpful to your kiddo and you.