Verbally Abusive Family Members
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- My 20-year-old daughter and her abusive father (my ex)
- My father is now abusing his elderly sister from China - is there a cultural approach?
- Dealing with my child's abusive non-custodial father
- Verbally abusive brother at family gatherings
My 20-year-old daughter and her abusive father (my ex)
Sept 2014
My daughter is already 20 years old and a college student. She is smart, lovely, confident and very sensitive. She is also extremely kind and giving to others. (Please excuse the praise, but you will see why...)
Daughter was home for two weeks this summer before heading back off to college. In that time her father and I, separated for many years, had numerous dinners and gatherings at our respective homes. (Her father and I have tried to maintain a good relationship, where we socialize together when daughter is home.) This has been no small feat, as my daughter's father can be verbally and emotionally abusive. He has major anger management issues which is why we are not together in the first place. (He has gotten a bit better over the years, but still has a ways to go.)
Nevertheless, things went well at our various gatherings, mostly because other people were involved and my ex usually keeps himself in check in mixed company. Until the drive to the airport. All of a sudden, my ex let loose a tirade on my daughter over a political dispute and he proceeded to call her names like Jackass, and yell and scream at her, while driving like a maniac all the way to SFO. It was horrendous. My daughter was crying bitterly. He was crushing her, and I, from the back seat, could do nothing! I tried diverting his attention to something else. He would have nothing of it. I tried getting him to stop the car so we could switch seats. Nothing could stop him! Not even his 11 year old son begging him from the back seat to please stop! We were all so shaken up by the time we got the the airport, (except my ex) and I don't know what to do with the trauma we all suffered, especially how to help my daughter. How can I support or advise her? The poor thing climbed onto the plane looking so washed out and devastated, like she had just been through a war! Is there anything I can do for her besides advising her to seek counseling at school?
Desperate to protect my sweet girl!
Sounds like things went well while there were other people around. Under no circumstances should her father be allowed to be in a position of control if he is so volatile. I don't understand your reference to her being sensitive, sounds like it was scary to everyone. Get the wonderful college student a shuttle ! Not her problem.
I have been there -- my Dad is a (now sober) alcoholic, and during his drinking years, he terrorized us with his temper. We walked on eggshells around him. He still has significant anger issues, and my Mom is still afraid of him (they have been married for 55 years). I don't really understand why my Mom didn't leave him or learn to stand up to him, because her acquiescence to his anger keeps her in a cage. By leaving your husband, you made an important statement: I will not put up with this treatment. That was great. But then why continue to socialize with him? Why continue to give him opportunities to terrorize you and your kids? I think it is important to tell your daughter, ''you don't deserve to be treated this way, and neither do I. Or your brother.'' Your ex is not going to hear you, I'm afraid. But your mail conveyed to me your desire to try to act as a family with this man, and you left him for a reason. Avoid him. Tell your kids to avoid him. And tell him that until he gets his anger under control, you won't be seeing him, nor will you encourage your daughter to see him. Time to break the pattern and acknowledge that this is not a loving family, but an abusive trap.
daughter of an alcoholic
Hello Mom,
I can't emphasize enough how much I relate to your situation. I have thought about this time and time again of how I would deal with this given my circumstances. Although I have not experienced this first hand, in every possible scenario that I have imagined, I would be crushed if my child's father expressed the same verbal and emotional abuse to our child that he has expressed to me.
My first recommendation is for you to reach out to any trustworthy adult that is near your daughter. This person can function as a surrogate parent to help your child navigate the results of this traumatic experience. Even if your child visits a school counselor, it would be helpful for her to visit someone that is personally close so that she has a good support system.
My second recommendation is for your to schedule a massage for your daughter every two weeks for the next month or two. Nurturing physical touch has proven to be so helpful in recovery. It is especially helpful when you are not close to family for those nurturing hugs. Furthermore, it will also help her get the healthy physical touch she needs so that she doesn't resort to becoming needy in her relationships with any boys in her life.
Talk to her as often as you can, everyday or two if possible. When you do talk to her, don't sound like you feel sorry for her because you don't want her to feel like a victim. Most importantly, she doesn't want to know that her mom thinks of her as a victim. It's a terrible disservice we do to our children when we talk to them with a tone of ''poor baby''. Instead, try to keep your emotions at a minimum so that you can be there for her and most importantly so that she can feel comfortable talking with you without it becoming an emotional conversation. Exercise your listening skills and ask questions to help her continue to communicate those difficult feelings. However, don't impose your suggestions to her. Instead, you want to help her find them for herself, even if she needs some help getting there.
I wish you and your daughter the best.
Sincerely, Concerned Mom 2
I understand why you want to include your ex in get-togethers with your daughter, but the net effect is negative, not positive. Stop doing stuff with him, and reassure your daughter that if she wants to opt out, she can. mom of 3 with an ex
My 24 year old daughter has a friend with a father like you described.She went away to college and has remained in that town several years now since graduation.She says she does not want to move back to the Bay Area so that she can avoid her father.Her mother is very nice and she has a good relationship with her.I would let her know that she does not have to see her father if she does not want to.She is an adult now. Ellen
Your daughter is a legal adult and does not need to consult the family court in order to curtail her time with her dad. It sounds like he is not mentally healthy, and should not be driving- at least with family members in the car. I would tell her that he should not be driving her anywhere, and that you personally will never get in the car with him again. And I would stop making nice and having him over at family events. He's too far gone to include in these events.
Why are You Enabling Your Abusive Ex
Your situation brings back all sorts of horrible memories of my family; throw in some physical abuse and I was your daughter. There ARE things you can do to protect your daughter and you've already done the biggest by leaving the abuser. Please call your daughter to apologize and talk the situation through. Honestly tell her how sorry you are that you weren't able to stop the situation from escalating and that you want to work together to make sure that such a scene doesn't happen again. Then talk with her to really develop a plan for anytime that the two of them have to be together. For instance: make every occasion one where other adults are present, make the last visit a short good-bye in public, and certainly don't repeat the drive to the airport! And think through other times when his temper flies to make mental plans to handle those. Thinking these situations through should help you prevent or minimize these scenes. And, of course, strongly recommend that your daughter talk to a therapist and/or do a lot of reading on the subject of abuse.
In case such a horrible scenario does repeat and you aren't able to stop it, the best thing you can do during the tirade is to ignore your ex and focus on your daughter. Give her a lifeline by talking to her (while he's carrying on) telling her that he's a fool and she's going to be fine. Otherwise your ineffective efforts to calm your ex down just add to the horror.
Please also do whatever you can to protect and support that 11 year old. Its quite likely that he is going to ''get it'' even worse than what your daughter has received. I'm assuming that he is your ex's son, not yours, so support for that child and the sibling relationship is important. Another daughter
My heart goes out to you. I can imagine how upsetting this situation would have been for me. I am conflict-averse by nature, but as I have gotten older, I have come to recognize the value and necessity of being able to match anger with anger when necessary. Of course, ideally, your ex-partner would learn to control his temper and treat people with appropriate respect. Since that isn't happening, I think you need to stand up to him for the sake of your children. Show your children that they do not need to accept abuse. What this would look like, in my mind, is that in the car you would have ''matched'' him. If he was shouting, you would shout back. To be clear, the purpose of the shouting would not be to insult him, argue with him, etc., but rather to continually place boundaries. ''This is abusive. You are being inappropriate. This is wrong. You cannot call our daughter a jackass. You may not treat us this way. If you will not protect our children, I will. Etc.'' Though it would have been scary, I would not have hesitated to tell him to pull over and let you all out (but make sure your kids got out of the car before you did). At the airport, I would have removed my son from the car and told your ex that you would find another, safe way home, so that your son was not exposed to such offensive and hurtful behavior. If you are like me, this entire situation would be very difficult and leave me shaking. But I do believe that you must be an example for your children to teach them to stand up for themselves when their own personal safety and well-being is threatened. You mentioned getting your daughter some counseling (good idea), but I wonder if also you might want to get some, specifically helping you to prepare for the next incident like this. Take care
My heart breaks for your daughter. I grew up with a dad who had anger issues too and it really sucks. Never knowing when they're going to explode is stressful and no one should have to deal with it, especially on important days. The good news is that your daughter is 20 years old so thankfully SHE gets to decide whether or not she wants to have a relationship with her dad. She might not be willing to cut ties right now, but she should know it's an option. When I was in my twenties I went to visit my parents and as usual, my father started screaming and insulting my mother. I decided I'd had enough. I stood up and calmly said, ''I've listened to this crap my whole life and I choose not to listen to it anymore. From now on if you want to see me you'll need to treat Mom with respect in my presence. And I left, and didn't speak to him for months. My dad was shocked and devastated and you know what, after that he pulled it together and controlled his temper and negative attitude (at least when I was around). He died five years ago and the last years of his life were the best in terms of his relationship with me. Can't say the same for my mother but I couldn't control their relationship and didn't try.
It's a hard lesson to learn, especially with a parent, but your daughter needs to understand that people treat you the way you allow them to. She may not be able to change him, but she can control what she puts herself through. She doesnt' have to deal with it anymore
I am sure you are going to get a ton of responses to this, but I just wanted to say, please don't subject your daughter to this type of abuse anymore. Since your ex has shown his willingness to put you all in danger, mentally and physically, please don't give him more chances to torture your daughter and the rest of your family members. I am at a loss as to why anyone would subject their child to this sort of a situation, when there is no need to do so. You have taken care of yourself by divorcing this jerk, and good for you!, now please take the needed steps to protect your daughter, even if that included cutting off all contact. truly concerned
I grew up in a very verbally-abusive household and the last summer I stayed at home was the summer after freshman year. (Thereafter, I lined up summer internships and never stayed at home, ever.) I say your daughter is very lucky to have you as her momma. You seem like a really caring person. Thing is, even though our daughters are always going to be our babies in our eyes, your daughter is 20 years old and she is probably strong/smart enough to brush off the verbal abuse from her dad and move on once she is back to her own environment, with her own friends and support network. In a way, it's good that she lives far away so that exposure to her dad is kept at minimum. I think you can protect your daughter AND punish your ex by giving your daughter the CHOICE to decide whether she wants to spend subsequent holidays and summers with her dad. If she wants to shut him out until he shapes up, let her. It's not disrespect if he is behaving this way, not to mention he is setting a very bad example for his 11-year-old kid.
BeenInYourDaughtersShoes
--Get yourself and your son to a therapist and perhaps a 12 step program? Talk over his behavior with your son.
--Let your daughter know this was entirely his issue, not hers
--See if you can get your ex to get evaluated for a mood disorder and to take some anger management classes.
Also tell him you are very disappointed in him. Limit contact and tell him he's on probation in all your lives until you see he can manage himself.
--Don't Put Up With It, It Only Gets Worse
What a horrible experience... My father was similar to your ex and he would also 'save up' his anger until the very last hour of a visit. I used to anxiously watch the clock until the visit would end, knowing that if any small thing set him off, I would bear the brunt of his abuse (or be sorely embarrassed when he directed it at someone else). Airports were especially bad!
But I have to say, he's not the only person in your post who reminded me of my own situation. The way that you speak about your daughter is much the way my mother speaks (spoke? I'm not 20 anymore) about me. There's a lot of real love and tenderness there, and I appreciate that. But there's also some intrusion and invalidation.
Let me explain: Despite what you wrote in your post, you don't know what your daughter feels about this situation. You don't know what her experience of her abusive father has been. You don't know if she really feels devastated, or traumatized, by this particular incident.
When you put words in her mouth, or assume that you know how she feels, you infringe on her boundaries as a person. It puts pressure on her to agree with you - to make you feel better and maintain the narrative that you have constructed. So she is then in a position to *look after you because you feel so bad for her*. It stops her from really expressing her own needs.
Much better to ask her how she felt, or simply own your own experience of the situation: ''I felt very angry when he was saying those things to you. I wish I had not agreed to go to the airport with him.''
I suspect that, like my own mom, you feel a lot of guilt over choosing the partner you did, and the ways that his anger issues may have impacted your kids. It's clear that you love your daughter so much. But you are projecting your own experience onto her, and it's not fair. The best thing that you can do now is to focus on your own experiences (therapy? meditation? family therapy with your ex?). When your daughter sees that you are doing this, she will feel more free to express herself with you, and to look into therapy herself.
Look after yourself. It's the best gift you can give your kids.
Mama Bears Need Love Too
My father is now abusing his elderly sister from China - is there a cultural approach?
April 2013
I grew up in a family where my father was extremely abusive, both verbally and physically. I left home a long time ago in my teens when it became unbearable for me. My mom, who stayed, had textbook abuse victim mentality. She was constantly trying to get me to make up with my dad, ''He's improved, really.'' ''He hardly yells or hits at all''. ''He just has a bad temper but he takes good care of us'', but then every few weeks would call crying from the abuse.
Fast forward 30 years, my mom has passed away in a car accident and my aunt is here from China to care for my father. She also has a history of being abused by her mom (my dad's mom), same type of verbal and physical abuse. And I am seeing the trend starting again. The latest was when she arrived at my house in a panic and tears bc my dad had threatened her with a knife, kicked a large crock container to pieces, and also verbally threatened to kill her grandson, who luckily is not in the country. The police were called, but surprise, no charges were pressed. And then three weeks later, it was ''oh, he didn't mean it. he says bad things and has a bad temper, but his heart is good.''
I am so tired of all this drama, and I realize that ultimately she is a 69 year old adult, and she has to be the one to walk away. But I sometimes feel guilty about not having provided my mom enough support to get away so I would like to give a good try for my aunt. I am not sure if the typical abuse books will work as there are definitely underlying cultural elements here. Can anyone recommend books/websites for dealing with abuse victims that take culture into consideration? I currently have a 12 wk old and a 3 yr old toddler so I don't think I will be able to make it into a group meeting of any kind.
hitting is not ok
I'm very sorry for this extremely difficult and painful situation in your family. Domestic violence is a serious problem in EVERY culture, class, ethnicity, sexual orientation. Here is a link to resources/organizations in the Bay Area that may be able to help you, your aunt, and your father. Some focus services and programs on assisting different Asian communities. .
http://calswec.berkeley.edu/files/uploads/doc/CalSWEC/BAA_Bay_Area_Domestic_Violence_Resources.doc
Committed to ending DV
I'm very sorry to hear about the situation with your father. I'd strongly recommend that you contact the Asian Women's Shelter in SF. I volunteered with them many years ago and saw first-hand the difference they made in the lives of women trying to escape domestic violence. The Shelter itself serves as a safehouse and is focused on working with women from Asian communities. I'm sure they could advise both you and your aunt, whether it be a referral to books, more direct counseling, or concrete strategies to help your aunt free her life from violence. http://www.sfaws.org/ Wishing your family the best
The ''DNA'' of family culture behavior has passed down the generations of your family. It's great that you want to break the unhealthy pattern and create healthy ones in your own family. One thing that can help you address your guilt is to remind yourself that you were a child at the time you were living with your parents, and after you left home, you did the best you could with what you knew. That same compassionate approach can be used to forgive but not forget the behaviors of your mom, aunt and father. Your father is repeating the sins of his mother and he's at an age and with a certain consciousness that precludes him learning a healthier way of relating to the people he loves. Because he hasn't acted on his vitriol, it sounds like his bark is worse than his bite, and yet I hope you are assessing the safety of those around him. Nevertheless, I agree that verbal abuse is traumatizing and unhealthy. Your aunt is also repeating the sins of their mother and probably their grandmother--sacrificing her life at home and coming here to aid her brother like a good Chinese sister.
As a multiple generation Chinese-American I grew up here experiencing and witnessing behaviors that were quite frightening and sometimes traumatizing. I decided to break the patterns even though I was criticized for it! I found it very helpful to work with a culturally-sensitive therapist and highly recommend Dr. Peter Chang at 510-841-7112.
From doing personal work I learned to clarify and declare my boundaries in a compassionate way, and continue being empathic with my relatives. I gave up my ''good Chinese daughter'' persona, learned tell them to stop when one of them crosses my boundaries. Now I can be around these people, love them, and tell them when they're going over the top or exit the space and leave them to themselves. I've been able to tell one relative whose drinking caused issues that while I love him, his drinking is scary and I wished he would stop. I've been able to tell other uncles that their shouting hurts my ears and isn't helpful to conversation. I've told one relative that when she is verbally and emotionally abusive, I'm going to leave the room and I did. One of my cousins married a bully who is Anglo. He worked in a culture that is very macho and he has a serious anger management problem. At a recent family meeting, when he interrupted me and started shouting, I stood up and said in a loud voice, ''stop bullying me and let me finish.'' He was stunned that I told him off, he shut up and I got to finish speaking. It's such a freeing feeling to know I can do this!
All the best to you ''hitting is not ok''
Chinese sister hitting is not ok for us too
I do not have any books to recommend, so I apologize in advance for not directly responding to your post.
I did, however, grow up in a somewhat abusive household (emotional, verbal, sometimes physical to me and my mom, but not to my sister). I have an Asian cultural background, and that played into our lives and general acceptance of the abuse. In our culture, divorce is NOT acceptable. However, when I was old enough and no longer living at home but there on a visit, my dad pissed me off enough that I called him on all of his behavior. My tirade empowered my mom to stand up for herself for the first time in 30+ years. After that, my family life got weird and progressively worse, since the dirty laundry had been aired. Marriage counseling did not help, because the counselor did not get the cultural hues. And, frankly, neither parent was willing to ''lose face'' even a little to heal. Eventually, after 40 years of marriage, my parents divorced. By then the kids were out of the house and married, which is the milestone I think the parents were subconsciously waiting for (it's difficult to marry off daughters from a divorced household).
Here's my point. Despite being in her late 60s when she went off on her own, my mother is the happiest I have ever seen her. Yes, she's been shunned by a lot of her lifelong friends and her previous in-laws, but many have stood by her and support her. She has her kids and their families to support her in every way possible. My mother makes little money and came away from the divorce without a cent, but she manages to make ends meet. She lives on her own 3000 miles away from her kids. She has to come to us for financial, car, home advice -- you name it. And we try to be there for her. Like you, we have small children, which included a newborn when the divorce happened. It was not the easy way out for anyone, but it was the smart, safe, healthy way out in the end. My father has moved on completely, and we're no longer in touch. The best part, my mother laughs that she won't be the one to change his diapers in the years to come. She dodged that bullet.
If there is a way for your dad to live alone and have your aunt go back to China or live on her own, it might be the right solution. Also, your children do not need that around them. It's scary. We know. anon
Dealing with my child's abusive non-custodial father
Nov 2012
Hi! I am the parent of a wonderful, compassionate, smart 7.5 year old. I have sole legal and physical custody of my child. My childs father, in addition to being a severe alcoholic, was physically and emotionally abusive to me-- he served time for domestic violence towards me. I have been separated from my son's father since that arrest, even moving 400 miles away 1 month after my child was born after his verbal abuse began again--he and his family even threatened to ''take my child if I ever called the police''. My son's father, to this day, doesn't believe I had a right to move and doesn't think he did anything wrong when he punched me in the face 8 years ago in a drunken rage.
In the years since, my son's father has used the pretext of calling to talk about our son as an excuse to harass me, scream at me, call me horrendous names, etc. He continually makes vague threats such as, ''just you wait, next month things are going to change and our son is going to be with daddy now''. Just enough to scare me, but not enough to get himself in trouble with the law.
The issue I am having right now is with visitation. He has court ordered once per month visitation in my home (unbelievable considering the domestic violence history) supervised by me, and my parents, with home I have lived since my child was born. In the past 3 years, he has visited 8 times and missed the past 11 consecutive months. I was on the verge of filing abandonment as I had had no contract from him in 6 months, however, he just called up out of the blue and said he's coming up in 3 weeks. Suddenly, it's back to the same routine, calling me up screaming, hate filled e-mails, and vague threats. I can't take this anymore! Does anyone have experience with something like this? I'd like to stop ALL communication with him, I don't feel I should have to take the abuse. I also feel there should be some sort of consequences for such long absences for which he refused to give any explanation. Any advice?? Jennifer
First, good for you for moving. You are right; you don't have to put up with this treatment. I'm not sure where you are located, but try online at WEAVE.org (Women Escaping a Violent Environment) or CPEDV.org (CA Partnership to End Domestic Violence). I feel certain that they will be able to advise you on your legal rights that may be able to end the visitation once and for all. anon
I am sorry you are going through this. First, you need to build a firewall between yourself and your child's father as soon as you can, by changing your phone number and keeping it unlisted, and changing your e-mail address. Don't allow him to contact you directly. Set up a formal intermediary through a lawyer. If he needs to arrange a visit, it should be done through that intermediary. No phone conversations or e-mails with him. This will be inconvenient for you (you will have to contact your friends and relations and businesses and...) but it will be worth it. And keep in mind that the new numbers should not go out to anyone who is likely to give them to him.
Second, go through your existing e-mails and print them out. Then try to write down, to the best of your ability, specific threats and insults and give the closest approximations of the dates you can. Make a file. Take it to a lawyer. Demonstrate that a relationship with this man is untenable for either you or your child. Your child does not need a relationship with a raging alcoholic who occasionally hints that he will kidnap his child. If he stops drinking (it doesn't sound as if he has) and stops insulting and threatening, then maybe. I would continue to appeal this, because it is vital to your child's welfare. Try to find a lawyer who can do this for both of you.
daughter of an alcoholic
Hello,
I am sorry your ex is threatening and continuing to abuse you. My advice is to contact the Family Violence Law Center immediately and ask them for help. They can be found online at http://fvlc.org Let them know what is going on, what your visitation arrangement is, who is attorney is (if any), etc.
In the meantime, document every phone call, email, text message--any and everything he does should be documented for your case. If you feel unsafe, report it to the police. If he threatens to do anything that makes you fear for your safety or the safety of your child, call the police (and document it as best you can).
I'm so sorry this is happening--I hope this helps. Concerned
The key word about him is ''non-custodial'' thank god! Don't answer ANY calls without screening and have ZERO spontaneous live conversations with him. Let him leave messages and tape them. Save the recordings. Document all visit dates and no-shows. Hopefully the dates are pre-set, however many years until the child is 18 X 12 months on specific dates or first Wed of the month, so you don't have him looming on the horizon ready to drop in or pressure you at any time. He misses the date or doesn't miss the date, period. Save all emails. Document all conversations - going into the past the best you can with approx dates, documenting threats. Added to the documented pattern of abuse he inflicted on you in the past. Hospital records, photos, whatever - the law is idiotic on this point the last I heard, considering spousal abuse a separate issue! Stone age.
Do not give him any chance to say anything to you live, do not engage except for logistics by email but with the right court orders you won't even need to do that. If you accidentally pick up the phone and it's him, say breezily ''Oh darn, someone at the door, gotta go.'' Don't make exceptions or changes. Don't give an inch, he can't be trusted with it. There's a good chance he will just fade away if it's been 11 months. Whatever triggered him again will fade away and his pattern may just be absenteeism. If necessary, take your documentation into court again to argue for even less time, but you may not have to go that far. Someone else in this same bunch of posts said something about ''abandonment'' - I don't know if that's a legal term but 11 months and a pattern of abuse may constitute that. Time to consult with a lawyer?
I hate to say this because I've been there and struggled financially to raise my child with an abusive ex. If there is a way you can drop child support fights, do so. That's a big part of it for most woman-hating deadbeat cowards who behave the way your ex does. It will never ever be fair and it might be incrementally less unfair if you force a few piddly thousand out of him over the years, but the cost more than wipes out the benefit. He ''wins'' in a way but you've learned a huge lesson and enhanced your character, some would say soul, if you stay intentional and conscious and respectful in dealing with him, take care of yourself in every way you can. Bravo for taking your parents' help. Bravo for assessing the danger correctly and acting on it at the beginning.
You're doing something worthwhile and hard, raising your child on the razor's edge where he or she needs to love or at least idealize this dangerous person who hates you. I did it with much outside help and support. It does end sooner than you think. - good luck
This is hard. Do not tolerate being abused by this jerk - verbally, via email, or text message. Is there a way to have a neutral third party handle the interface?
There are facilities (I think the Oakland police department used to run one) where supervised visitation can take place away from the mother's home. It would be good for the kids to see their father on neutral turf, given the history.
Do you have a very nasty lawyer? Such a person would cost money, but it might be the best thing for putting your abusive ex in his place. anonymous
So sorry you are having to go through this process.
It is time to go back to court and get a change of parenting plan if it currently requires you to speak with him on the phone. I am sure your parenting plan does not say you need to put up with verbal abuse or violence, however. If the parenting plan only says that you need to communicate, but does not outline how, then refuse to take any more phone calls and demand that all correspondence be by email. They are much easier to print out for documentation for court and if he is (blessedly) stupid enough to say the things in email as over the phone, then you will have that much more physical evidence to present to a judge backing up your request. Keep a detailed log of each call and what he said, including the length of the call and the date he called. That way if he tries taking you to court or when you go to court, you will have detailed documentation of why you cut a call short or refused to continue verbal contact. Make any email contact with him as BORING as possible; ie, do not address accusations, put downs, or outrageous claims he makes. Stick to the facts and keep your wording neutral and focused on information about your child. He wants a fight and a victim. Disappoint him.
I personally would also start the process of asking that supervised visitation be done at a professional facility that can catch any weirdness in his interaction with your child or at least give you some relief from what sounds like a stressful situation.
I found Patricia Evan's book ''The Verbally Abusive Relationship'' to be helpful in dealing with my verbally abuse ex. I refused to speak to him on the phone and his numerous abusive follow-up emails got me a court order that required all of our communications to be in writing and that they be brief, peaceful, and focused on how to care for our child. I've not had to motion for contempt of court, but I've ended up with powerful documentation that has helped make the situation better.
You don't have to put up with it
Verbally abusive brother at family gatherings
Sept 2005
My daughter is now old enough to recognize that my brother is verbally abusive towards his wife, my mother and me. My husband is ready to have words with my adult brother. My brother says, ''shut up'' and ''f...u'' in anger and in front of our kids. I understand that siblings fight and his wife and my husband usually stay out it, but lately it is getting worse and much more public. He goes on and on in front of all of our kids and owns it by saying, ''That's just how I am, so I am a jerk! Sue me!'' He is an attorney who is always on the offensive attack. Should my husband stay out of it or tell him to watch his mouth? Will my brother see this as a declaration of war? I am tired of my child seeing us being disrespected. Big Sister
I'm actually at a loss as to why you even have contact with your brother if he is that awful. Do you have to see him, for instance at family gatherings? If so, keep the visit light and cordial. If he flies off the handle, leave with dignity (e.g., by saying camly, ''You're not rational and I'm not subjecting myself and my family to this any longer.''). The guy needs help, and if he won't get it, then you need to cut him out of your life. I have had to do this with a sibling and it wasn't easy, but in the long run it was the right thing to do.
I think YOU need to handle this, not your husband. And regarding your child, Yes, his behavior will affect your child in any number of ways (will hate his uncle, will wonder why you take it, might even see that being a bully is effective, etc.) Not Taking It Anymore
Excuse me, but why would your husband be involved with YOU setting boundaries with your brother? Unless your brother tries to haul off and hit you, of course.
Really, YOU need to tell your brother that you love him, and you love yourSELF too, and you're not going to let him treat you this way anymore. When he says he's just this way and he's a jerk, tell him you respect that, and that is his choice, because it means he cannot come around anymore. Don't let your kids be around that abuse. Seriously.
I believe that you owe to your children to not expose them to such behavior. You don't have to ''sue'' your brother, but you don't have to be around him either. I would arrange play dates with his wife so that the children can still play with eachother and try to avoid him as much as possible. Perhaps he values family more than he values his jerky ways.
I think having your husband talk to him will only escalate the situation, so I would avoid that option. Your only choice is to hold him accountable for his actions. I'm sure this is a very difficult situation. Good luck! concerned
My brother's wife used to be verbally abusive and my husband, son, and parents became very uncomfortable around her. We tried confronting her whenever she cussed, but that did not work. That approach just fed fuel to the fire. What I found to be most helpful was when I made it point to spend more one-on-one time with her. I got her to open up to me, and after we became closer friends, she was able to talk about what made her tick. This was great because once she was able to admit she had a problem, she began making a conscious effort to correct it.
However, this effort to improve herself brought back a handful of past experiences that she didn't realize she was so angry about. Eventually she opted for counseling which was emotionally nerve wrecking for a while. In the long run, she became happier and the cussing just went away. Ana
Hi, Sounds like you should follow your gut on this one. Just tell your brother ''I'm sorry, but we don't want to expose our kids to rough language.'' Then you can decide if you want to: 1) not see him when you have the kids with you. 2) Leave immediately any family gathering as soon as his language gets rough.
My hunch is that he's set in his ways, in which case #1 would be the way to go. Hey, life has it's consequences. He'll just have to face these. JM
Why is this brother allowed to visit your house? You are in charge of the climate in your home and people who don't follow your house rules are not welcome. Just because someone is a relative doesn't mean they are welcome or have a right to act any way they please. Sounds to me like nobody ever spelled out their boundaries to this man - just tolerated him and therefore put him in charge. Deal with him like raising a toddler (isn't his attitude at that level?). His choice is to speak nicely when he visits you or he cannot come to visit. If he messes up, he needs to apologize or leave. Chances that he improves are low because of his age, the engrained pattern, his sense of entitlement and the way he treats women, most likely you end up with smaller, but peaceful family gatherings. But you are removing a bad example from your children and by doing so you are setting a good example. Take the power back that you and your mother have let him have for way too long. If he was a stranger or just an acquaintance, would you ever invite him back? By setting your standards, you may indirectly support his wife too, who must be fed up herself tolerating the verbal abuse. It's time for consequences. I have zero tolerance for disrespect. Born in the year of the tiger
It is so hard to deal with abusive people and it is clear your brother has no intention of changing his behavior. I think you can only set your own boundaries and try and stick to them. I would tell your brother (you, not your husband), that you do not want to be around him when he is abusive and uses fowl language- especially in front of your kids. I would make it a point to leave as soon as he becomes abusive. Explain to your daughter that your brother is not being nice and is not treating the people around him kindly and that you won't be around him when he is acting like that. I would treat him like a child since he is acting like one- you know, where if your kid has a tantrum in the store then you leave the store and don't take him back until he learns to control himself. I think if you have your husband talk to him he may become more defensive. I think you should talk to your brother privately when neither of you is upset and just lay it out. That you love him and want to spend time with him but that you will not subject yourself or your children to his behavior and that you will leave if he becomes abusive towards you or anone else in your presence. On some level he is acting this way because he can. If you don't tolerate his behavior he will lose you or he will shape up (hopefully!) anon
No one should have to put up with that. Is he only this way to women? That seems to be a bigger problem if your daughter is learning that it's okay for men to talk to women that way. This seems like much more than siblings fighting. He might see a comment as a declaration of war, but he has already declared war on you, so what is there to lose? recovering from a family of yellers
You can't change him. There is nothing you can do to change him. But you can change whether you'll let him treat you that way. Tell him that you will no longer tolerate the verbal abuse. Tell him how you want to be treated and that if he is verbally abusive, you will take your family and leave his house, your mother's house, wherever he is. And if he is in your home (though I wouldn't invite him over until he has proved he can do this), then you tell him to leave and if he doesn't, you call the police.
There is no easy way to do this. It will be made easier if you and your husband get on the same page about what you consider respectful behavior and what the consequences will be when (not if, when) your brother tests your limits.
By doing this, you and your husband would be giving a great gift not only to your family but to your daughter. Otherwise, she'll likely grow up thinking it is ''normal'' for an adult male to verbally abuse women.
You have the strength and courage to do this. And the family that is your priority now is your daughter and husband. Good luck. Rachel
I would reframe your question to the following: What to do when another family member who is not your spouse is verbally abusive to YOU. Your FIL is doing this in front of YOU (and your kids) but not your husband? That's not a coincidence. It's because you're a woman and he wants to show you how he treats women. Great, he's shown you. Now show him how women stand up for themselves, and kick him the f__k out of your house. NOW. Call the cops if necessary, but get him OUT. I feel sorry for his wife, but you aren't helping her by continuing to put up with this. You may or may not be able to help her, but you can help yourself and your kids. He needs to leave your home asap, even if it means he is sleeping on the street (which I doubt it does). Forget eggshell. And I don't know what you mean by "working on it." You don't need to work on it. You need to get him out of your home.
So sorry you are experiencing this abuse. I agree with the previous responder. Get this FIL out asap. I’m
Get him out of your house. Your husband should be the one to do this. If your husband refuses to help or hedges, you go stay somewhere else with your kids until your FIL is gone. Do this today. I'm not sure you can help his wife but you can help yourself and your kids.
I’m not sure how you can help the wife who is being abused, but I hope others will have ideas because it sounds absolutely awful and life threatening for her.
I do have advice about the fact that your FIL is living with you. Witnessing abuse as a child is considered an Adverse Childhood Event that greatly increases a child’s risk for later PTSD, mental health problems, substance abuse, and being a victim of abuse themselves. You can read more about the research on Adverse Childhood Events by googling it. Please strongly consider kicking your FIL out of the house, for the sake of your children. If they are witnessing this abuse then they are experiencing trauma.
Oh, what a difficult situation.
First, you and your children need to be safe. You have to make sure your attempts to help your MIL don't endanger you or your children, so start with guarding and protecting yourself, and proceed outward from there. Your FIL's refusal to abide by your home rules is extremely troubling, as is your husband's apparent lack of involvement in curbing his father's misbehavior.
Secondly, you need expert advice and support from outside: domestic violence organizations, friends, and authorities. Contact some local and national organizations on domestic violence in private. They can advise you whether a trip to the police is wise and otherwise how to proceed. Guard your phone and computer carefully from your FI; be sure to use passwords he doesn't know. Use a friend's phone/computer or the local library if necessary.
Third, you need to know where your husband is on keeping you and your children safe, because he is the sole reason your FIL is there. Either he hasn't laid down the law to your FIL, or your FIL doesn't care (in which case he needs to leave). Watching a man terrorize and abuse his wife, even long-distance, has got to be traumatizing your children, as well as you.
If your FIL only does this when your husband isn't around, and he won't conduct himself properly in front of the kids, that's very telling. It means you have no authority in your FIL's eyes, and your children are watching him ignore you. But still, he's allowed to stay under your roof. So you absolutely need to know what your husband is willing to do. FIL's only claim to being in your household is through your husband, but YOU and your children are paying the price. Surreptitiously record your father-in-law's behavior. Make some backups and store with friends or elsewhere. You need to know if your husband will actively support you or not (i.e. tell his father "behave or leave"); if he dismisses his father's behavior or minimizes it, you know you've got a 2 generation problem.
Fourth, your MIL needs support and help from resources close to her, and a domestic violence group will know a lot more about how to help her than you will, long distance and working with a language barrier. Ask if possible for a contact who speaks your MIL's language to provide her with direct support and put her in contact with local resources who can do much more than you can, short-term and long-term.
I wish you good luck and PLEASE let the community know how it works out, for all of you.
https://www.thehotline.org/
http://www.ncadv.org/
https://ncadv.org/other-organizations
https://save-dv.org/what-is-abuse/
Why are you allowing him to live with you? I would tell him that he is not allowed to stay with you if this behavior continues. This is completely unacceptable.
The solution is simple. Never allow this abusive man in your home again. What he does in his own life and his marriage is his business, but your job is to protect your children. Record him next time and play it back for your husband. If your husband will not make him leave, then you leave and take your children somewhere safe.
I agree 100% with previous poster. Get him out.
1. Contact domestic abuse authorities or services in the country that she is living in, ask their advice. Find out what protections spouses have. 2. Tell her how to get help. 3. Confront your FIL directly, immediately. Don't waste another minute. Search on the Internet for the punishments for domestic abuse in the country they live in. Then say this: "What you are doing is domestic abuse. It is punishable by xxxx in the country you live in. You don't sound like you love this woman, and you should divorce her. You are no longer welcome in this house. You have 15 minutes to get out of here." Don't make "I" statements. Give him directives.
There's a woman being abused who is in your family and you are asking if you should look the other way? Absolutely not! You need to help her! And it's been six months already and you haven't done anything to help? Really??! Her life could be in danger and it sounds from her desperate messages that she is begging for help. The fact that you have witnessed this behavior is further proof of how horribly she is being treated. This situation isn't about your kids--he doesn't have to visit you ever again--but he will go back and terrorize her so you need to figure out how to help. What country are they in? Please look up local resources in that country that can help her. Ask around--this is the Bay Area, there are likely plenty of people from that country around that can help and know resources.
This is your husband's father--he is your family--and you should NEVER turn your back on a woman being abused. It is situations like these that women can get killed. I am honestly shocked that you are even asking if you should look the other way.
Perhaps she can contact a local women's shelter and get some advice from them, with translation, while he is not there.
Also, here are two books that can help you to understand what is going on, what you can do to help, and what she can do to survive:
I, too, recommend that you get him out of the house ASAP: 1) The abuse is damaging to the children to witness. 2) It is also damaging for them to see an adult (you) not taking any action to protect them from an unsafe environment. I know this from how my own life was affected as a child witness. It is a terribly difficult thing you are dealing with. I am sending you my best mojo for courage and a good outcome. May all be well.
Thank you for the insight, recommendations and tough love. My husband heard his father talking to his wife via FaceTime, confronted him and my FIL is now staying with friends.
In the decade I’ve known my FIL, I’ve never seen this side of him. Ever. He trained me for medical residency and I suppose I’ve been blindsided. I have heard he can be harsh and he has lost many (male) friends over the years. My husband said he grew up with this erratic and emotionally abusive behavior; he was lucky to have had a mother who divorced his dad, moved to France and continued to protect him starting at the age of seven.
I know I need to help this young woman. She does speak enough English and some Spanish (so I am able to communicate with her pretty well). To be clear, I need resources for women in Spain. She is from Syria and he is from a country near there; since they couldn’t come to the USA due to her citizenship being rejected (he is an immigrant and US citizen), they can only stay in the EU. I am researching resources but haven’t found many). When he returns to her, I know it won’t be good; apparently she took “his” money and lent it to relatives.
The one thing that can work against him is that he’s a well respected physician in the area (retired). He does have an ego and his pride. Or does this not matter in this personality type?
1. PLEASE do not let this man stay in your home anymore. 2. Up to you - an embassy?
Most of what was needed to be said has been said. I would like to add that his talking to her on the phone in front of you is grooming behavior. He was grooming YOU and your kids. I highly recommend you get some therapy to unpack it and have the therapist help you decide if the kids need some too. I’m so sorry you’ve experienced this.
i also second the recommendation for Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why Does He Do That”.
glad he’s out of your house.