CAS vs. Academic Choice
Parent Q&A
Archived Q&A and Reviews
CAS vs. AC for math lover with ADHD
Nov 2015
I would definitely advise you guys check out AHA. Get to know the teachers there who are all wonderful and share with them his experiences in middleschool and your family's desire for the best possible scenario you hope for. For us it was a comfortable community, so far the best my family has experienced at Berkeley high Best of luck
I would HIGHLY recommend AC over CAS, simply because AC is a large school. AC is basically just regular high school. You change classes every hour or so, and have a different mix of kids for every class (with the possible exception of a History/English core group.) There are electives. In CAS, you are with the same 60 kids for 4 periods a day, for the next 4 years. That's great, if you like those people. It did NOT work for my kid, a happy, well-adjusted, social, ''B'' student, who felt trapped and stifled. And yes, the behavior my kid encountered was terrible overall. CAS kids became so comfortable with each other very quickly, that it seems they feel they can talk whenever they feel like it, text or play games on their phones, or just leave class to get a snack or whatever. We got little help from the teachers, and none from administration (last year's interim principal, and vice principal of CAS). They blamed our kid for the issues, when they were clearly systemic. My kid re-entered the lottery and wanted AC, but got IB. We are very happy with it, and kid is doing well this year. BHS mom of sophomore
My daughter with ADHD graduated from BHS last year and was in AC. She would say that the more challenging the course, the less chaotic the classroom. She learned very little in some regular AC courses, but her honors and AP courses prepared her well for college and AP tests, and the student body was engaged. I felt the math program was superb- I can compare it to the math program at the foremost private school in the area attended by a sibling which did not suit that child who also has ADHD. If he likes math, he should definitely go with AC or he will not be challenged. Math has been a drawback to the small school. Its not TOO rigorous in AC- she was a ''B'' student in middle school math, but she grew in confidence, getting an ''A'' in AP Calculus BC from the excellent Mr. Bloomsburg and getting a ''5'' on the AP exam. She also loved 3 of her 4 English teachers. The small schools are still part of the huge BHS community, and don't shelter much of the chaos. Anon
If your son is strong in math, you should be aware that the most recent available data shows that 94% of CAS students are not proficient in math. Though BHS is transitioning to offering the same math to all learning communities, it is hard to get much traction with new material in a classroom in which only about two kids out of 30 are at grade level. In AC classes, 30% of the kids are proficient in math. This is still very low but it means that about 10 kids in the class rather than 2 will be ready to learn without remediation.
These math proficiency rates are quite puzzling if you try to trace them back. The math proficiency rate at King, which is the largest school feeding into BHS, is 71%. How, then, do the Berkeley High small schools end up with math proficiency rates of 6% in CAS, 7% in AHA, and 2% in AMPS? Nothing like this happens in Berkeley when kids transition from elementary to middle school. In addition, many Berkeley kids who’ve attended excellent K-8 private schools such as Prospect Sierra go on to Berkeley High. This makes the plummet all the more baffling. Since success in high school math is the single most accurate predictor of success in college, it is somewhat surprising that Berkeley High has offered neither an explanation for nor a solution to this huge problem which affects — in one way or another — almost every student in the school. The 6% in CAS who are at grade level have almost no chance of moving ahead at a regular pace. And the 94% who need remediation are not offered it during class in any kind of meaningful or systematic way that allows them to get back on track. Many kids at BHS are years below grade level.
In your search for a calm and focused environment for your son, consider also the open campus policy at Berkeley High. Students can walk off campus after first or second period, buy drugs cheaply beside the school, get high, and return a few periods later, or not at all that day. When kids as young as 14 have the freedom to spend their lunch money on weed and sit in the sun or skate across the street from the school with friends instead of going to class, the classroom atmosphere is certainly affected when they wander back to class. This is true in all the learning communities — but there is less temptation to cut rigorous classes like precalculus or Honors Analysis because frequent cutting is soon reflected in very poor grades. The lower the standards in a class, the easier it is to cut frequently.
CAS has some good features. The kids form meaningful bonds. The teachers are hardworking and caring. There is a sense of group identity. Most kids in CAS like CAS and there is a lot to be said for kids having a positive feeling about high school. math teacher and parent
Both my sons attended BHS, one went to AC and the other CAS. The older son who was in AC was a very independent learner, academically inclined, sociable and went in with many friends. He thrived in AC. My younger son, ADHD, not as academic and takes longer to get through homework, etc.., went to CAS. It was a very good match for him. Small classes, the best teachers we've ever encountered, totally committed to kids and accessible to parents. There were a number of kids in his class who were academically advanced and they were challenged. The teachers worked with my son to make assignments within his reach, and helped him through some difficult years. In general, CAS classes were well organized with strong discipline, though at least one teach didn't have good control, and has since left. Both choices worked really well for us, because they suited our children. Mary Anne
Hi! I’m wondering why you are limiting your child's small school options simply to CAS? You state that your ''son, African-American, needs relatively quiet classrooms, with well-behaved students, to be able to concentrate because of ADHD.'' I'm writing to suggest that you widen your possibilities -- to AMPS (''Academy of Medicine and Public Service''). Our child, who has severe ADHD, is in her junior year at AMPS, and it has turned out to be the perfect school for her. We have found the AMPS program to be wonderful in every respect except mathematics, which wouldn't apply in your son's case.
AMPS has received a bad rap over the years, but the current situation is vastly improved. For one thing, they have more computers available to them than do AC students, but more importantly, the students are graced with some of the very best teachers at Berkeley High... or anywhere! They were lucky enough to have two, very gifted teachers -- Ms. Guzman (who has powerful classroom control) and Mr. Dopman (who has opened up our child's mind to the world) for Literature and Sociology/History, respectively, for both 9th and 10th grade, and the AMPS juniors are looking forward to being in their classrooms again during their senior year. However, their current, 11th grade, teachers -- Ms. Korber and Mr. Tobias) -- are excellent as well. Our child loves them all!
Moreover, the counselor for AMPS, Dwayne Byndloss, is readily available and has gone to bat for our kid on multiple occasions. Since she has ADHD, this has meant organizing a 504 Plan meeting every year and making sure that all the teachers are up-to-date on her modifications. (If your son doesn't have a 504 Plan or an IEP, please ask his current V.P. to get one in place before he leaves middle school.)
The junior year in AMPS, by the way, is something special: all juniors find an internship that they work at for three hours every Wednesday afternoon (they have no classes 4th-6th period on Wednesdays), and it lasts for the entire school year. (Preparation includes resume-writing, cover letter, etc., instruction, and they must turn in their signed timesheets, with their own reflections, every week.)
I'll close by noting that as I write, our child is on the ''AMPS Junior Retreat,'' being held at a Jesuit retreat center well northeast of Sacramento. They are spending all day Thursday and Friday doing team-building exercises, and preparing for college (writing the first draft of their college application letters, as I understand it). Words cannot express HOW EXCITED our kid has been about this retreat! (And it's 100% free to every student.) ~ another option to consider
My son is a freshman in AC and also has ADHD. First word of advice: if you don't already have a 504 plan for your son, get it now while he is still in middle school. We had one already coming in to BHS, and when we had our 504 meeting with his BHS counselor and vice principal, they made it very clear that no accommodations would be granted that hadn't been granted at the middle school. We met a couple of parents who'd been trying to get a 504 for their kid at BHS for two years. Also get in touch with the parent group at BHS for 504 and IEP kids, called BOLD bhsboldcontact [at] gmail.com
Now about AC for ADHD kids. It is working out pretty well for our distracted kid. None of his classes are rowdy. All of his teachers have been very willing to follow the accommodations in his 504 plan, including extra time to complete homework and tests. However, and this is a BIG however, math happens in a group of 4 students whose desks face each other. They do classwork and tests as a group. The teacher's main role is to answer questions. Even though common core started this year, the math teachers are sticking to this long-held practice of learning in groups, which is deadly for certain kids, especially inattentive ADD students who have a hard time focusing. We asked if he could instead work quietly on his own, since group work for him is just one continuous distraction, and his 504 plan specifies that distractions be reduced as much as possible. But we were told that is not an option, this is how all the math teachers have agreed that they want to teach math. Instead, in a well-meaning but misguided effort to accommodate his ADD, the teacher put him a group with high-performing kids, so our son is not only still distracted but he feels very badly about holding back his group members as he struggles to finish tests and in-class assignments. As a result, our son is not doing well in math at BHS, and doesn't like math anymore. He had a great math experience at Willard, and performed well on the state exam in 8th grade. We are trying to keep him caught up by working on math at home. Bleh.
I don't know if CAS does group math. One reason we didn't choose CAS is because AC has a better reputation for math, which our son likes, or used to like, whereas CAS has a lot more writing, which is much more challenging for him. On the whole, we're happy with AC, but the math has been a disappointment. I'm not sure if they are still letting freshmen test out of algebra - if so, maybe the honors math classes are not like this, and your son could take those instead. Good luck!
I'm addressing my response to ALL current and future Berkeley High
parents and guardians, because the issue of how mathematics is taught at
BHS is an enormous problem. Perhaps, if some of us work together, we
might find a way to incite some meaningful change in this department.
In last Friday's newsletter, one parent posed a question to which
another parent unwittingly responded.
THE QUESTION:
''In AC classes, 30% of the kids are proficient in math.... These ...
rates are quite puzzling if you try to trace them back. The math
proficiency rate at King, which is the largest school feeding into BHS,
is 71%. How, then, do the Berkeley High small schools end up with math
proficiency rates of 6% in CAS, 7% in AHA, and 2% in AMPS?''
THE ANSWER PROVIDED BY ANOTHER PARENT:
''[M]ath happens in a group of 4 students whose desks face each other.
They do classwork and tests as a group…. Even though common core
started this year, the math teachers are sticking to this long-held
practice of learning in groups, which is deadly for certain kids,
especially inattentive ADD students who have a hard time focusing…. We
were told that is not an option [to let a student work quietly on his
own], this is how all the math teachers have agreed that they want to
teach math.''
This *mania* for group work in mathematics is nothing more than a
pedagogical fad, to which the mathematics dept. at BHS has subscribed
with predictably abysmal results.
How to account for the difference in proficiency between the math scores
in AC (36%) with the small schools (less than 7%)? Easy: until last
year, all the small schools taught the discredited, intellectually
bankrupt program entitled “IMP Math”. In his excoriating denunciation
of this program (commissioned by the BUSD), Cal math professor H. Wu
made a point applicable to the entire BHS math department:
“[T]he requirement of active participation in group activities …
should be kept within bounds for students aspiring to be professionals
in the exact sciences…. [T]he understanding of anything worthwhile (in
science or mathematics) is on the whole an individual experience. It
must come from within. In addition to group activities, the students
should as well be encouraged to learn to ponder by themselves, to
develop their own individuality, and to learn new materials by reading
alone. IF A CAMEL IS THE HORSE DESIGNED BY A COMMITTEE, WHAT THEN IS THE
KIND OF MATHEMATICS LEARNED EXCLUSIVELY FROM COMPULSORY GROUP
ACTIVITIES? Is it really necessary to elevate mathematical
gregariousness to a virtue?”
{Personal note: our child excelled in math at King, but BHS has been a
disaster. Although we managed to get her out of IMP Math after her
freshman year (thanks to advice on this forum!), her performance has
plummeted, and she no longer envisions a career in math.}
If you’re interested in banding together to approach the BUSD
administration, please ask the moderator for my email address.
~ let's turn the tide!
Hi, there. My observation is that CAS kids have a high college-bound rate, and a very dedicated roster of teachers. There are two main concerns, really: 1), that CAS takes a very limited number of students, and must accept at least 50% of kids who are considered "at risk"; this is a requirement for the structure of all three very small learning communities. Every year there are many disappointed families who hoped for one of the smaller SLCs. And 2) that the only learning community which really offers lots of options is AC; AC offers full access to all of the electives, including all the cool new career technical options. All of the others have proscribed courses which severely limit access to electives.
Rumors tend to proliferate among both parents and students around which SLCs are truly "rigorous" and which ones are the most attractive to college admission folks, and those rumors tend not to be based on fact. If CAS is attractive to your child, I would say by all means apply and hope for the best!
I can't attest to CAS now, but my college freshman was in CAS her 9th grade year. For her, just being in a small learning community (as opposed to BIHS or AC) was far too confining, socially. She needed a much bigger pool of classmates, and hated seeing the same 60 peers much of the day. She switched to BIHS the next year and was much happier. I think the quality of learning is much the same across the entire school.
My son is a CAS upperclassman so I can share some of his experience with CAS, though I don't know anything about AC.
He chose CAS with a lot of deliberation-- he wanted a smaller community where he could get to know people better, where he could form relationships with teachers, where there would be interesting discussions about topics of importance (he's very interested in social justice issues), and where he could learn from other students with diverse perspectives. He also wanted academic rigor because he loves to learn and challenge himself.
Overall he has been very happy with CAS though has some frustrations. He has enjoyed getting to know a smaller group of kids better and has greatly appreciated most of his teachers. A few of them have been truly amazing, to the extent that he talks at the dinner table about what they have learned (one evening he was eager to explain the course of the French Revolution to us; another evening he outlined in detail the aspects of his science teacher which made him so good at getting across the material to the students) or discussions they had in class or about personal conversations he has had with one teacher or another. He feels like the teachers really care about the students and this has been very supportive for him.
He does sometimes gets frustrated with the extent of off track conversation which can occur in the classroom-- a side effect perhaps of the students' comfort with each other and their teachers. This varies somewhat by teacher, subject, and class composition. This doesn't bother him as much as it might bother another student as he is pretty focused himself and not shy about speaking up himself. He does take advanced math which has many students from IB and AC and notes that the feel of that classroom is quite different-- much quieter and focused on work. However he enjoys both kinds of classrooms and is really glad he has the chance for such a broad experience.
The other possible downside of CAS is that his choice of electives has been somewhat restricted due to the required CAS electives. He enjoys learning about video, photography, etc, but if these electives were not required, he'd probably choose different courses.
I asked my son to review what I had written above and if he had anything to add-- this is what he wrote:
Overall a great response. You also might want to mention that the classes can sometimes be quite unbalanced in the workloads they give us, and that some classes are far too easy, while a few are quite hard (but in my opinion in a good way). Also, it can be very, very frustrating how often kids talk out of turn, though I've heard that it is especially a problem in our grade and might not affect the incoming 10th graders as much. Also worth noting that in my opinion CAS classes + advanced math is enough work; CAS certainly does give homework, it's just all from a few specific classes. And electives are a good point.
Good luck with your decision!