Worried about Abused or Neglected Children
Parent Q&A
Archived Q&A and Reviews
- I think my young grandkids are being abused by their 10-year-old step-sister
- What are the chances of getting a child out of an abusive home if you report it?
- Should I call Child Protective Services about neighbor kids?
- Fighting CPS
- 4-year-old visiting constantly, may be abused?
- Worried about neighbor's baby
- My step-kids' mother is abusing the kids when they visit her
- What can I do to help abused children?
- Neighbor screaming at her kids - emotional abuse?
I think my young grandkids are being abused by their 10-year-old step-sister
Oct 2014
My two grandchildren 5 (boy), 3 (girl), living with their mom and half-sister (10 y.o), and spend weekends with my son, their dad. Mom and dad are in the midst of a contentious breakup. The older sibling does not like my son, the younger kid's dad, though he tried very hard to develop a relationship with her. To illustrate this, she has a history of extreme hysteria and dramatic, screaming displays around him that are scary and dangerous to his safety and the result of nothing more, for instance, than him asking her to take a shower and get ready for bed (then demanding when she refuses) when she has been in his care (I was there, believe me that's all it was). I've also seen her battle her mother physically over not accepting being put on a time out in the past. So this is an already troubled child, IMHO.
Anyway, this past weekend, my grandson told me ''Kathy'' hit the 3 y.o. ''very hard'' with her hand, and later, hit him ''very hard'' with a stuffed toy. The older sibling regularly lashes out at them, and I've seen her do mean, subversive things, deny it and then make sarcastic apologies when prompted by the mom. Mom gave Kathy a talking to about this hitting incident, but it was troubling to my G-son. He also told me that Kathy ''doesn't like little kids'', because she told him so. I'm sure his interpretation is that she doesn't like him or his sister. I tried to to assure him that she's probably just angry at things in general, or upset about other things, but he assured me that she's not; that she is ''VERY angry''.
This may be an isolated incident, but over time, I've heard enough of these stories that I'm becoming concerned about the younger kids safety. More so, I'm concerned that the mom, who has some pretty messed up judgment in my opinion, may leave the older sibling to babysit the younger ones. This is very likely, in fact, because she feels pretty trapped by being a parent, and has complained loudly over the years for even having kids at all. Now she has a new boyfriend, and with three kids holding her captive, I have no doubt she's likely to leave the 10 year old in charge.
My question is kind of Universal: First, how does this feel to you? How does it sound? What would you do? What should I do, if anything? I do talk to my son, and he is struggling with just the dynamic of the relatively recent break-up and trying to create a home for the kids on his own, and to settle them into this new routine and new life. He has little power over what happens to them at their mother's house, obviously, and with no bruises, and no overt evident of abuse or neglect, it's difficult to do anything, really, and I'm aware of that. But is there anything I can do?
Thanks in advance for your helpful advice.
-scared Nana
This does indeed sound bad. I would try calling the hotline for the Child Protective Services office in the county your grandchildren live in and ask them for advice anonymously. Start there.
Another possibility, if your son is in a position to take a stand, is to look through this incredibly helpful page for advice on what to do as a parent who wants custody: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/child-support.
Also, see if you can talk to your grandchildren's teachers, who are mandated reporters, and ask them to keep an eye out for signs or comments of abuse.
See what these three things net you and if that doesn't solve things, you can consult an attorney on your own for an hour for more specific advice about what to do next (look for nonprofit agencies offering legal aid if you can't afford it). I do think you should stay involved, stay supportive of your son and grandchildren, and don't lose hope if this problem takes a while to resolve. I had to watch domestic violence/abuse of children for a while from the sidelines before CPS took definitive action and while I am sorry I didn't push harder earlier, I'm not sorry I kept pushing. good luck and be persistent
Hi there, It sounds like the 10 year old is acting out her (normal) anger/fear/etc about her family changes. From what you described, it doesn't seem dangerous to the younger ones. Tantrums, regression are pretty normal in this situation. It's so sad though. Perhaps you can gently encourage the adults to get a counselor for this girl (it helped my daughter tremendously). Or offer to take all the kids for an afternoon each week ... or take the little ones for an afternoon so the ten yo and her mom can get 1:1 time... The adults are probably feeling overwhelmed and grieving, and it's hard to make things right for your child when you're in the midst of it. Been there, sadly
Is your relationship with Mom good enough that you could offer to babysit? Maybe you could say something like, I know this is a hard time, and I know solo parenting must be hard work. Can I help you get a break by taking all three kids every Thursday evening (or Saturday morning or whatever)?
That way at least you could be closer and monitor the situation. (And maybe in the process send a message to the 10 year-old that she is lovable and you want to be around her too even as her family is dissolving)?
You could also work with the little ones on self-protection, safety, how to stand up to bullies, etc. Maybe you could take them to a KidPower workshop and start a conversation that way? They give you comic books to take home so that you can sit down and read/talk with the kids about how to protect themselves. It doesn't have to be specifically about their older sister - just good training for life in school.
You have my sympathy. It sounds like a difficult situation all around. Sympathetic
While I can understand that you are concerned about the safety of the kids, I notice that you are furthering an us vs them ideology that is not helpful. There are 3 children here and they are siblings. It does nothing good to imagine that the 10 year old is some kind of evil endangering the younger kids. If your son and his partner recently split, the 10 year old is also being subjected to a lot of disruption that could be impacting her negatively. If the younger kids are going on weekends to their father and she is not b/c he is not her father, this could also be very hurtful or disturbing to her. Kids overall will be adjusting to circumstances where partners split up and if there is a new boyfriend already too, then that is even more for a child to deal with. Please find your empathy for all 3 children, not just the ones biologically related to you. If you want to make a positive impact, I'd suggest seeing how you might lift some of the burden of this hard time. Can you help by having the kids to play at your place, can you keep a positive relationship with the kids mom, can you help support the relationship between the 3 kids by taking them all to do something and give the mom a rest? This 10 year old is a child impacted by adult decisions too. Sibs often fight, argue, say mean things and even hurt younger sibs and they do it more when they are in pain and have no control over their lives changing. These kids will be sibs forever-how can you help them be good sibs, all of them? change your frame
I'll keep this short:
If you are on good terms and your son would be ok with it, you can offer to babysit anytime she needs it..even for short periods and with little notice. That might cut back the times she leaves them alone. If you do this you must deal with your dislike of the girl and come to see life thru her eyes a bit more/sympathize with her/like her! You should also have some tools/plan in place for what to do for not-ok behaviors pre-agreed on with the mom.
Or you can offer to pay for a sitter( she picks the sitter) whenever she needs one for whatever reason.
Or you can offer to pay for therapy for the girl who's obviously having feelings about how her life is going and all the disruption and losses. J
What are the chances of getting a child out of an abusive home if you report it?
July 2013
Looking for resources and advice re: options for protecting children when you suspect abuse, or rather, when you know for sure that there is abuse going on, particularly when it comes to severe psychological abuse (not in a ''they yell at their kids over every little thing'' kind of way, but when it is severe degradation that is clearly damaging the child in obvious ways and where you are sure that even living in foster care as a ward of the state would be better than where they currently are living). I know it is VERY difficult to get a child removed from their mother's care. The handful of people that I personally know who tried to stand up for an abused child were retaliated against by the custodial parent and basically never allowed to see the child again once allegations were made, and ultimately the child never was removed from the abusive environment(despite CPS reports, etc). I only know stories of lose-lose situations where the child wasn't actually protected once people spoke out, then was isolated further and the only advocates in their lives are systematically shut out and unable to protect them.
Here are some questions I'm hoping to get answers to, but I don't expect BPN to answer these - it's more that I'm looking for resources: What are the actual standards, processes, chances of getting a child out of an abusive home? Are there websites that walk you through the process and tell you what to expect and how to start? How many witnesses of the abuse do you need? How many events need to be documented? Does it matter one way or the other if there are/aren't relatives willing to take in the child? Are there additional regulations if the child has special needs? Does the child's age play into any factors? Can you make a CPS call if you haven't personally witnessed abuse (but multiple people without ulterior motives have told you they have seen atrocious things)? If there is more than one child in the home but only one child is being abused, are both kids removed and kept together? Anon
First, I want to say that you can call CPS anonymously and tell them your concerns and ask questions about the process. They are helpful. It's a tough decision.
Years ago I called CPS about my niece (then a toddler) and her parents, and they investigated but did not act. And you're right, the parents cut me out of my niece's life for several years and never trusted me again. When they did eventually permit contact, I secretly resolved to refrain from calling unless I was sure there would be action; better to keep any eye on those kids, I thought. Neighbors called CPS too, but it wasn't until more than 10 years that a dramatic event caused the kids to be removed from custody.
By then there were three kids and they all went into foster care with strangers (and then bounced from home to home every month) while family arrangements were sorted out, which took six months because none of us could take all three kids, and at first state wouldn't split them up. It was terrible for the kids, and eventually the parents got the kids back by taking classes, drug tests, counseling, AA, and so on. They were forced to get their act slightly more together, and it made it harder to hide.
Here in CA anyway, the foster system wants to keep siblings together, prefers placing them with relatives and asks that such relatives be willing to permanently adopt the kids, should parental rights be terminated (a process that is decided over 12-18 months).
You can get advice too from an attorney experienced in these cases. Tim Fricker in Oakland is a good one. 510-663-8484. Good luck! Auntie
Your concerns and thoughts are important. I am pleased to suggest you contact a local Agency that has been serving our communities for decades assisting Parents and making safer communities for children. Family Paths' hotline service would provide you with an anonymous way to discuss your concerns and identify your options. http://www.familypaths.org/ 800-829-3777 Jim K
I understand where you're coming from, as I too have witnessed poor response by CPS that resulted in no improvement in the situation.
I think your best bet is to call the CPS hotline in your county and ask them the questions you posted here. You will get a sense by their response whether or not you want to officially report abuse. That's what I did for kids I knew. I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with them, starting out by saying I was not making a report yet but wanted information. I detailed what I knew and their answers satisfied me. In my case, I wanted to know if the kids (12 and 16) were old enough to choose not to go home. I was satisfied with the answers--not just the ''facts'' as presented, which can vary depending on which worker you talk to, but the overall feel of the conversation and how seriously CPS would take things, plus the fact that yet, the kids were old enough to refuse to go back. Previous times, the kids had been sent back (which by the way, I think was considered as it was all in the file). I then conferred with the kids and then called back and made an official report.
In my case, I was willing to take the kids, and when no family members could do so, I was chosen. Are YOU willing to take them, or at least to advocate for them, to insist on showing up at decision making meetings for them, etc.? I personally think those things are a help, although they are not a deciding factor. No one knew that I'd be willing to take the kids at the time I made the call.
I know what you're going through. I watched these kids suffer for a long time as family members just sort of ignored it, covered it up, or tried to help but then dropped out.
BTW, if you don't like how the case is handled, call the agency and ask for the number of the ombudsman. I did that in another situation and they did admit they'd handled it improperly. Don't think it helped that kid, but it may have helped the next one in a similar situation.
I have some inside familiarity with CPS and related agencies, as well as now being a foster parent. Feel free to ask the moderator for my email. I can help you further research before you decide. a lot of experience now
Call CPS-they can answer all these questions. anon
I recommend calling Legal Services for Children in San Francisco. They should be able to answer your questions or refer you to someone in your jurisdiction who could. The attorneys and social workers there represent children in the SF foster care system and in guardianships both in San Francisco and the immediate surroundings. Their number is 415-863-3762. Their website is www.lsc-sf.org. Sarah
Should I call Child Protective Services about neighbor kids?
July 2010
The children next door to me seen to live hellish lives. The older one is about 10 and is constantly in charge of her sister, age about 3 or 4. They are out at all times of the day and night. The older child seems to be constantly tormenting the younger, who screams incessantly. The mother is in the house ignoring all of this. The mother is - to put it delicately - a difficult neighbor. Speaking to her would cause an outburst of rage. If I speak to them the mother calls them inside. Don't suggest things to say to her because I really do not dare open a conversation. Should I report this? What do I report - kid tormenting sister? It sounds so small. But the screaming and crying is escalating and I know summer will mean longer hours of them at home in their terrible lives. troubled
Yes - you should call CPS immediately. CPS is in the position to evaluate the family and to either (1) hook the family up with services (childcare, mental health assistance, drug counseling, etc.) that will help resolve the problems or (2) get those kids out of the home if necessary. Taking kids away from their parents is not what CPS ''wants'' to do (never the first choice), but sometimes there is no safe alternative. Don't delude yourself that it isn't any of your business - we are all responsible when it comes to kids in need. Kids can be injured in a variety of ways, some injuries are clearly visible, but some remain hidden. Please give these kids a chance at an improved situation - it will benefit them and our society. A Friend
You can always call CPS, and explain your concerns. There is no harm in doing this. Please know that it is not your job to decide whether the kids next door to you are being abused or neglected - you would be calling only to report concern, and it is the job of the CPS agency to determine if they should send a worker out or not. You are NOT a ''mandated reporter'' which means that you can make the call anonymously, and your neighbor would not know it's you that called. Sometimes CPS won't send out a worker, but if they get enough calls then that creates a track record and they may be more inclined to send out a worker the second or third call they get - it really all depends on the county policy, and how concerning the allegations seem to be. Hope this advice was useful. Gina
Trust your instincts! I'd call, but I'm a total busybody! (we have kids in our neighborhood who run a bit loose, but they're basically happy and there seem to be semi-responsible adults at call in emergencies. Running around... no big deal!) But it sounds like the mom may have issues - addiction, depression, or just garden-variety shame. Is there a partner or extended family in the picture at all?)
Call CPS, describe the situation, and let them make the call. They may decide not to act on it... but then they may be familiar with this family from another setting, or they may see a red flag. If they don't act now, but an incident happens down the line, your comment in the record may give them background as to the situation.
and, worst case scenario, if something really bad does happen... you'll know you tried.
In short, yes.
You say that they're out at all times of the day or night, the older sister (who's only 10) torments the younger one (who's ridiculously young to be parented by a 10 year-old), and the mother does nothing. This last is a classic sign of maternal neglect (usually associated with drug use). Her ''difficulty'' and rageful reaction is also neglectful and maybe be indicative of verbal abusiveness to the children. It's certainly also implies drug usage. Similarly, the fact that she calls them inside if you try to engage them is a bad sign -- she has something to hide.
CPS has investigators who who will take a report from you and make a preliminary decision how to proceed. They can come out and see what the situation is and decide how or whether to proceed. You can ask that your name be kept confidential, but if you think the mother can figure out your identity, you should consider your feelings about that.
For context, I am an attorney who worked with Alameda County doing these types of cases for over 10 years. I feel so strongly about protecting our kids. . . Good luck! Laurel
YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! ! YES ! ! !
Please, call ASAP ! ! ! These children need you to protect them NOW ! ! !
Today, I ask you to call for protection for these children after years as a court-appointed advocate for children
You can certainly call the Child Abuse Hotline but they can only ''open a case'' if there is suspicion of imminent danger. I am not aware of the exact laws in California but certainly, leaving a 10 yo to supervise two toddlers for many hours and late into the evening, outside, may qualify. Mentioning the screaming and crying and general lack of supervision and perceived neglect (are the kids dirty? Do they go many hours outside without eating or checks by the parent?) may be important information as well. Remind the worker that you are happy to speak with the assigned social worker but that you would like to remain anonymous to the family. Even if what you have witnessed does not, technically, qualify there may have been prior calls from others or school and together, this may compel DCFS to investigate and, ultimately, provide some support services. CSH
Call. I was in a similar situation to yours a few months ago. Though the actual circumstances with the child were different, those parents would've also been difficult to talk to about it. I agonized for many weeks over whether to make The Call. Ultimately, I decided that if something awful were to happen to the child, I would've always wondered if my call the CPS could've prevented it. Call. I didn't live next door to the situation and seeing such bad behavior every day must be difficult. I'd advise you to continue to keep your distance from the parents and the children. Be cordial, but little more. Call. I did, spending only about 10 minutes on the phone with CPS (they couldn't do anything because though the behavior was uncommon, it wasn't dangerous, violent, or illegal). However, it wasn't a total loss because after calling I did feel better knowing that, as a member of the ''village'', I spoke up. If CPS can't get involved, they'll tell you. They'll also be able to guide you on when escalation of the current behavior would allow them to intervene. Maybe you're not the only neighbor who thinks the situation needs attention. Maybe you are. And if you are the only one, so what? Call. Just think of all the news stories where neighbors thought something was amiss but didn't do or say anything, and things ended tragically. Call. Janne
I would go with your gut and call. It sounds like you can report your concerns under ''general neglect.'' While I do not believe that California has a legal age minimum to babysit, the National Safekids Campaign recommends that 12 is the youngest to be left home alone (http://www.latchkey-kids.com/latchkey-kids-age-limits.htm).
General Neglect Info: ''Section 11165.2(b) defines general neglect as the negligent failure of a person having the care or custody of a child to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or supervision where no physical injury to the child has occurred.'' www.ocde.us/downloads/legal/ChildAbuseReportingQA.pdf Bridget
Reading your post, it sounds like you sent this in before BPN went on summer break. I hope that you've been able to do something about this. My opinion: definitely call CPS! No 10-yr old should be in charge of a young sibling all the time. Period! That's what CPS is there for. joj
I say go with your gut and call. Instead of reporting ''kid tormenting sister'' I would report ''possible neglect''. Just tell them what you've seen and they will determine if there is a problem. The consequence of not calling and there really being a problem way overshadows the risk of calling in a ''false alarm''. The mother clearly has issues and may really just need some help/support that they can hopefully supply. anon
Yes, you should call child protective services. Your call is anonymous. They will ask you lots of questions, and will determine if it's something they will get involved with.
I had to call on a neighbor and felt so relieved afterward. I hated doing it, but felt that there was no other way I could help. The CPS representative was very caring and thorough, even as I sobbed through the entire conversation. I'm so glad that I made the call.
Please, for the sake of all the children, call now. concerned
Yes! I would also notify the school principal at the child's school. Anne B
If you feel that these children are leading a troubled life or may be abused (doesn't have to be physical), you owe it to them to call protective services. You can remain annonymous, but it will be checked out. I think you'll feel better if you do. Kathy
You can make an anonymous report to CPS. Don't worry about how to characterize it - no-one will ask you to justify your call; just tell the person taking the report what you have observed (seen, heard) and your concerns, what you think is going on. It sounds like a neglect situation at the least. If you observe something requiring more urgent response, you can call the police. Ilene D
It sounds like a very imperfect home to grow up in, but do you feel there is legitimate *abuse* going on? I personally wouldn't call if there isn't abuse because honestly, as unfortunate of a home that is, it's better than an orphanage or an abusive foster home. Best of luck. Suruchi
Hi, I would recommend that you call CPS. You can talk with someone there who can help you with this. They can help make the decision as to whether they should intervene or not, or possibly offer the family voluntary help from an agency outside of CPS. Child / Family Advocate
Living in a racially and culturally diverse community has its challenges. This parent communicates differently and parents differently than you. Is she a bad parent? I have no idea. A 10-year-old caring for a 3-4 year-old? Doesn't sound ideal to me but hardly sounds abusive. My advice: 1. check your cultural lens and your racism/classism. 2. Mind your business . . . why are you talking to her kids anyway unless it's to say good morning and how's school going? I'm sure the mom has probably figured out that you're the ''quick-to-call-cps-type'' and hates you already. 3. Be nice and stop being judgmental. You don't walk in this woman's shoes. Perhaps she's ''checked out'' due to depression or a difficult employment situation or PTSD. Maybe she senses that you're scared of her or judgmental of her or people like you have mistreated her in the past and she has a wall up. Consistently be an authentically kind person and worry about raising your own kids. don't call
As a teacher who's made MANY CPS calls, I would say do it but don't expect anything to happen. They are so overwhelmed that if a child isn't in great danger, nothing will happen. What will happen, however, is that they will then have a paper trail in case something bad does happen. Just make sure you tell them that you must remain anonymous - they are required to take anonymous reports. teacher
You should call CPS and run the situation by a screening social worker. They will take a report if they see fit. They may already have records/investigations regarding this family. Be prepared to provide as many specific examples as you can. For example, what do you mean by torment? Is the older child hurting the younger children physically? You also need to provide address, names, ages, other identifying information. CPS SW
Often times, CPS can be *very* helpful to parents who really need help and don't know how to get it. It sounds like you have tried to talk to the mom and see/offer help (?) and have not been successful.
I guess you have to really consider if calling CPS will help this family or not. It sounds as though it would--at least the mom would have to clean up her act and provide food, etc. There might be a resource that the mom could use. CPS is not just about ''taking the kids away.'' They can be very helpful.
Please note that if you think the kids are in danger, call the police (CPS can sometimes be slow). I would report general neglect: stick to the facts, the kids are out at all hours, there is constant distress sounds coming from their house.
Are the kids dirty? Do they have changes of clothing? Do they seem fed? Do the right thing
Child protective services is for situations where there is abuse or neglect (eg. hunger, children not going to school, children living in insanitary situations). You should go see a counsellor to work out whether what you see is abuse. Once you call child protective services, they are compelled to investigate, which includes calling the police. You need to be sure that the mother next door is more than an annoying neighbor and an inconsiderate mother. There is no license given out for good parenting. There are many bad parents. But not all of them warrant investigation by the police. I am glad you are looking out for the interests of the kids next door. But be very careful before you make this kind of very, very serious allegation. concerned
Just remember that the foster care system is not always better or safer than the home, imperfect though that home be. Offer a friendly hand before involving authorities in a situation you know little about? Mothling
I would call CPS with your concerns. This has nothing to do with race or culture. My SIL called CPS on another family member because of a situation that she felt was out of control. I have no contact ever with that family member and I was not aware of the bad family situation or I would have called myself. Long story short my niece is now being raised by my mother and is no longer in a neglectful household. Also as a best friend to one of the most AMAZING foster parents I can say in my friends case she is the most loving parental stand in that anyone could ask for. While there are horror stories out there remember that the first job of CPS is to help the whole family. Even in the cases where the children don't live at home the foster families are also trying to help the parents be reunited with the children. So go with your gut feelings and call. Bobbie Jo
Please remeber: More than once, a ''meddlesome neighbor'' has saved a child's life !
One post suggested that you might have a ''class'' or ''cultural'' bias: If these kids seem to be neglected or abused, neither ''class'' or ''culture'' is an acceptable excuse. Many now-adults grew up in a home with limited resources and prospered / excelled (one example among many: President Obama), but limited resources is different from neglect and abuse. If the ''hair on the back of your neck'' informs you this situation might be neglectful or abusive, CALL !
One of the responses gave misinformation: Calling CPS does not automatically link to the police.
One post told you that CSP is imperfect: That's true, but social workers and staff at CSP do what they can, and, short of calling the police (which you should do if you witness hitting or hurting or other abuse by any adult or by any child: witness = see or hear), calling CPS is what you can do to help in our society as our society is, now. CALL !
Court advocate for children
Fighting CPS
Sept 2009
I need help urgently! I have been fighting a CPS case for 20 months and am now at the point where my 3 yr. old son will be adopted out by the foster mom in the next 2 months. I have a court appointed attorney that has done absolutely nothing for me. My son was taken 1/4/08 he had a temper tantrum on a BART train, and I was accused of shaking him (I didn't). I was taken off the train, I was upset and angry, I cursed, kicked, and screamed. I was sent to a mental hospital for 2 days, then jail for a week. My son was first in foster care in Richmond, and he got his leg broken, there were numerous accusations from the foster mom and the agency she was with while I visited with my son, all of which were false. My son was only removed from her home when she refused to transport him to appointments. There were again accusations against me from the new foster mom in San Leandro, and injuries with him in her care, but injuries and charges are always attributed to me. I am not completely innocent during this time. I have missed appointments and been late, I have used poor judgement at times, I left him alone one time at night to go get him something to eat, and I did go with him closer to a moving train to see it up close. I do have a past, with suicide attempts in my youth and I have been very upset and angry with the attempts and tactics that have been used to legally kidnap my son from me.
I am not now nor have I ever harmed my son. I am a single parent with life issues. I am poor and feel that and the fact that I've already been judged for my life choices, is what is being used to seize my child from me. I love my son and have always wanted and intend to make a better life for him. I want to be able to make major life decisions for my son's health and well being. I want to regain my life with my son so we can go on with our lives together, as a family. My son is my life and my whole world. I want my son now, and wanted him when I gave birth to him. I don't want my son to grow up thinking that he was adopted because he was unwanted or unloved. I want to raise my son and let him no he has a mother that loves him to no end and is fighting for him.
I am seeking your help and assistance because I am out numbered, out matched and can no longer fight this battle alone.
I am really sorry to hear about your situation. It must feel really terrible to not be allowed to parent your son who you love so much. Having been an adoption social worker, I cannot give you any advice really on fighting CPS or getting your son back in your custody. Really in order to do that, you must follow the conditions set for you by the court and your social worker. You must be very consistent and diligent in meeting their conditions. However, if it is too late to do this, which it may be, if you behave in a way that is very non-threatening, you may be able to convince your social worker and the foster parents to have a meeting with the foster family. You could then ask them to maintain a level of contact with you, and perhaps allow you to maintain a relationship with your son as well. The foster family who is potentially adopting your son will have the right to choose exactly who is in his life if your rights are terminated and they adopt him, but I have seen many very wonderful relationships between birth parents and foster/adoptive parents where a relationship with the child can be continued. Sometimes this involves face-to-face contact, sometimes phone contact, sometimes just letters, or sometimes the adoptive parent not allowing direct contact with your child, but sending you photos and keeping you up to date. Again, for you to have the chance to build that relationship, I would make every effort to meet the conditions that have been set forth for you. I would also try to be as kind, understanding, not demanding, and non-threatening as possible. Good luck to you. Are you in therapy? This is a big loss for you to not have your son with you for 20 months, and a therapist may also be able to help you. Anna
It is clear that you want very much to be a mother to your son. I don't have any direct experience with CPS; there are people on the list who will be much more competent to respond to your questions about the bureaucratic aspects of your struggle with that agency. But I do feel that I can respond to your heartfelt letter. You acknowledge that you have made some poor choices, and when you told about the episode when your child was actually removed from your custody (on the train), I could see that you have a violent temper. Kicking and cursing are not behaviors that are going to accomplish what you want: getting custody of your son. This is not to say that you were treated fairly in terms of the charge made against you, but from what you yourself say about your behavior, I think it possible that people sitting near you were struck by the intensity with which you treated your son (leading them to say that you shook him). Obviously (unless they are personal enemies of yours trying to sabotage you) these people saw something on the train that alarmed them severely. Repeated statements from others about your behavior (the foster parents) and your own admission that you do not always make good choices lead me to wonder: maybe you do need to get your life and your emotions in order before you are really ready to take care of your son. You may not, in other words, always have a very clear picture of how you are behaving and why that behavior might be seen by others as unacceptable in a mother.
Unless I am very mistaken, the aim of the system will be to return your son to you when you demonstrate that you are ready. If you can ask for help in getting into an anger management class, behavioral/emotional therapy, and vocational counseling, maybe you can use this time for self-exploration and self-development. Try to think of it as a kind of (unwelcome) gift -- you now have time to get yourself together and make yourself into the mother you truly want to be. The battle you fight, I think, should be less with CPS and more with the demons of your past and present. I wish you good luck in getting to a good place in your life. concerned
I am so sorry for your situation. CPS is a total nightmare, in every county in the state. I worked for a CPS office for 9 weeks because I was unemployed and needed the job. It was so awful that I quit without another job lined up.
I don't know what more you can do with only two months left. Some thoughts I have all require access to the Internet; if you don't have that at home, you may use the public libraries.
Contact Legal Services of Northern California immediately. They offer low-cost legal services to those who qualify. They have one office in Sacramento, but I am pretty sure they are throughout the state. Call the Sacramento office if you have to.
Contact your local Commission on the Status of Women (county). Also try contacting the state Commission (women.ca.gov). The state's top priority this year is to get CPS to change its practices, so they may have some local resources for you, including maybe a lawyer who can take your case. Be persistent; remember that these offices are experiencing budget cuts like none in recent memory, so they may not want to take the time to help you.
If you have anyone at all from whom you can borrow money, hire a private attorney. Be sure that they are someone who has worked with your local CPS in the past. It is its own little circus. Go into deep(er) debt and take out a cash advance on a credit card if you have to/can.
Above all, in the courtroom, remain calm, be respectful, do not speak unless spoken to.
Very best of luck. I will keep you in my thoughts. anon
Hello,
OK sister, if you're serious, I'll give it to you straight.....Own that you've made mistakes, show up for all meetings on time, be clean, polite and agreeable no matter what, take the suggestions they make and follow them TO THE LETTER. They'll probably want you to take an anger management class, a parenting class, maybe have your own psychiatric and therapeutic treatment, stay sober if that's one of your issues. Even if they don't suggest these things, they're a good idea for you to do independently, and report that you've done them. Join AA or NA if that's one of your issues, join a dialectical behavioral therapy group to learn to manage your emotions better and to get support for your strong feelings. And when you do have child visits, be focused on your child's feelings and wishes, not your own. Have a stable living situation and job life. No random loser partners. Be a ''square''. And SHOW UP to court with what you've accomplished and the feelings for your child that you express so well here. They may allow you to ''stay'' the 18-month reunification clock so you can keep working on healing yourself while you stay involved in your child's life, even though it's less likely that they'll let you live with your kid right away.
Wishing you well
Your post was very sad. It is clear you love your son.
When I was reading your post I heard loud and clear that you love your son and that you have made mistakes. What I did not hear you say, not even once, is that you wanted what was best for your son. Does he have someone who wants to be a stable permanent parent to your son? Is there someone who consistently talks to him, plays with him, is consistent with him?
I ask these questions because I know without a doubt that my mother loved me BUT she could not and did not take care of me. My education was inconsistent because she couldn't get me to school on time or at all. Although we had medical insurance, she would not take me to the doctor or dentist regularly and I often had ear infections that were not taken care of and cavities that were not filled. I had pain and now have permanent hearing loss and a mouth full of silver fillings. I would have been better off living with my grandmother who wanted me and who could and was willing to set her life aside to take care of me. But my mom loved me and wanted me with her; I struggled through childhood and struggled in early adulthood because our life was about what she wanted and needed, not what I wanted and needed.
I did not hear you talk about taking any child development classes to know how to care for your son properly. These classes are absolutely free. Would you be willing to completely stop going out to have your son? Would you be willing not to have a boyfriend until your son is an adult if you knew it was best for him? Would you be willing to have someone stay for several hours per day giving you parenting suggestions if it was the best thing for your son?
It will be very, very difficult, but my suggestion is that for one entire day, you do not think of what you want or don't want but you think only of your child. You think about what you want for him when he is an adult, then you think about what skills he would need to learn to be that person you want him to be as an adult, then you think about whether you can really do those things he needs to have done to become the the adult you want him to be. If you can think only of him in your response, you will end the day knowing what is best for your son. It may be living with you, or the greatest gift you can give him is to show up at the final hearing with a letter telling him how much you love him which is why you had to say goodbye.
Love is important, but it does not make a person a good parent
4-year-old visiting constantly, may be abused?
Oct 2008
New neighbors moved in next to us, nice single family home, owner occupied neighborhood. Wonderful! they have a 4 year old child, we have a 3.75 yo... They've been here 3 months or so now. There are multiple issues which make me feel like a prisoner in my home. one, the child has few social skills and invites herself over constantly. hearing no often results in a screaming fit or pouting. rarely does a parent accompany her. I find myself at a loss - should I return the child home or do I have no responsibility for her safety since she comes/goes by herself? two, my husband saw one parent hit the child. prior to that the child cringed when I needed to physically restrain her after asking her to stop destructive behavior so I already suspected physical abuse. how much do I MYOB? three, relatedly, my child wants to play with her ''new friend'' and doesn't observe the negative issues we do. How do I communicate to my child the desire to limit interaction without the ever talkative preschool newswire sharing information? I've adjusted our schedule to be more unavailable but it is limiting and annoying to feel I need to hide from a 4 yo child. The child surely needs positive interaction but I don't want my child(ren) to be her training ground. Obviously the child's behavior is resultant from the parents' behavior (it appears they barely talk/listen to her, she is starved for attention), so I don't think talking to them will be the solution but I'm open to hearing suggestions. I did point to a local inexpensive preschool but I don't think they explored it. wanting peace again
YOU sound EXACTLY like my next door neighbors. My son is 4. Their kids are 5 and 3. If it were up to the kids, they would be playing together 24/7. I have to make up 1000 excuses not to allow my son to go next door to bug them. Their kids are always asking but rarely allowed to come to my home, then their mom limits the playtime to 10-15 minutes. I cannot stand this. It is uncomfortable and just wrong. They have no animals and we have 2 large dogs and a kitten. Our house looks like we actually live there and their house looks like a model home out of a magazine. Their kids hardly have any toys because that would create clutter. Our kids have TOO many toys. They have a maid and nanny, I don't have a maid and I don't need a nanny because I don't leave my kids. Kids are kids. If your child wants to play with this other child, why are YOU getting in the middle? Your child will be raised by your morals and values, so if this child has issues, it will not affect her. Why not participate in the playtime? Teach them a game or play house with them? As for the other mom, why not invite her over for coffee instead of assuming she is an evil bad parent. She could end up being your best friend! You never know - she just may be shy or afraid you won't like her. Invite their whole family out for pizza. Take the high road and be the better person.
First, it is your responsibility as a PARENT to protect your child, and it is your responsibility as a PARENT to protect the peacefulness of your home. Second, it is your responsibility to YOURSELF is to protect yourself from frustrations and exhaustion. Third, as a member of a MORAL COMMUNITY, it IS your job to send a certified letter to the city in which you live (your letter must be sent by certified mail) clearly outlining your fears. Please state your fears as just such, not as ''facts'' except where you have actually seen certain actions. No one spoke up when I was abused !
the hitting-- and even more so the cringing disturbs me. If I were you I'd call CPS and tell them exactly what you said in your post: here are the facts, I'm not sure how serious it is, what do you think? --That is what they are here for. a little concerned
You saw the kid being hit already ? And you didn't call the police ? Why not ? A four year-old who cringes at his parents ? This is not MYOB, this is CPS (Child Protective Services). Anon.
Here is a child just steps from your door who needs help Forgive the parents manners for the moment and think about the child. This is an opportunity for you to ''create a village'' to help this child and her family if you choose. Do not judge, just support the child. Her/his family could be going through some crazy (private) issues - just open your heart and give what you can. another mom
Please, please, please report the family to child protective services. If you saw a parent hit a child, that is enough to go on. The child is asking you for help. Even if you can't let her into your home, you can help her by giving her living situation a wake-up call. What if they really hurt her? Could you live with yourself if you did nothing? anon
When I was growing up, I had a neighbor like yours. She was 4 and I was 5 when we moved into our respective houses. She was my friend, and she was at our place constantly. Her hair was never brushed. The most horrible sounds of fighting came from her house. Her mother was abusive, an alcoholic, and her father left and either could not or would not take her and her sister away. (This was in the 1960s; men were not given custody back then.) No wonder she came to our house; it was a refuge. My father hated having her around, and she was scared to death of him; she would flee when she heard his car in the driveway. My mother welcomed her always -- brushed her hair in the morning before school, gave her breakfast, helped her with homework. My mother is a key reason this girl survived a horrific childhood. She is about to turn 50, is still my friend, and is a warm and functional person -- an OB nurse, married to a great guy, mom of three good kids.
I tell you this because as hard as it is to open your family to this girl, it may be her salvation. If she is being abused, you should report the parents to Child Protective Services. If it is not to that level, consider welcoming her -- making and enforcing clear rules, of course. It might just save a life. Dara's friend
You posted that you wanted to limit your child's interaction, but it may be good to invite the whole family over for a get together to show them how you all interact. There are a couple reasons for this: 1) Your neighbors' child will have a neutral ground 2) Your neighbors will see how your family interacts and it just might rub off 3) You'll gain some insight into their family dynamics - which will be very beneficial to your next steps on what to do. Sometimes we find ourselves being in a position of bringing about a greater good...you may be in that position now and I know that you will take the right action. Concerned
When neighborhood kids come to my house, I lay down the ''house'' rules. I make it clear that, if my rules are violated, the visitor will be asked to leave. (My son also has to follow the rules, or his friends will be asked to leave.) I once asked a 4 year old to leave my house. He was very unhappy about it, but that was the consequence to violating my house rules, and I stuck to it. I allowed the boy to return after that incident (it took him a while to work up the courage to return to my house and apologize), and his behavior significantly improved. Be firm and consistent, and I am certain you will see a change: either (1) the kid will modify her behavior, or (2) she will not want to return to your home, since you are the ''mean'' mom. Either result will give you the relief you are seeking.
I really can't comment on the hitting, since I am not certain to what degree the hitting occurred. There are no laws that say parents can't hit their kids; so, I suspect that the police or CPS may not do anything about one instance of spanking or even others, unless it was extreme. You need to check this out with CPS, if you can. the sometimes ''mean'' mom
This is a tough one. The way I see it you have two ways to go. You can either try to help this poor child out by letting her come over on occasion and guiding her behavior as best as you can. She obviously needs a loving and stable parental figure. If you don't have the time/energy/ etc (no judgement here,,,you have your own life) for the first suggestion, here is my other one. Go to the next door neighbor's house. Talk quietly to the parents and mention that their daughter is at your house too much and when she is there, she is disruptive. Let them know that you expect one of the parents to call you first, and find out if the time is ok for the daughter to come over. Tell them kindly that if their daughter comes over unannounced, you will walk her immediately back home.
I feel for you, but really I feel for this family. Perhaps someone is ill (physically or mentally) or having a crisis. Compassion with firm limits is all you can do. good luck! anon
I think your anger is geared toward the wrong person. You are acting passive/aggressive in that you're taking the child in but you're being aggressive in that you don't want the child to interact with your children because of her behavior but at the same time you're putting up with it by inviting it by not speaking to the parents. If it bothers you so much, you must have enough courage to nip it in the bud and go directly to the parents and be upfront about the situation and the nuisance it's become to you in a face-to-face discussion and be clear as to how it makes you feel. You say you are in a prison in your own home but at the same time you have created the prison by letting this child come INTO your home. You can always turn her away and tell her to go home. If you want to get out of this situation, then you must speak up and make it happen. If I had a child that was treated by a neighbor like you and was then told that my child was not welcome in your home, believe me, I wouldn't want my child anywhere near you. I'm sure the parents if they're intelligent enough, will get the message. I feel for the little girl and I also feel for your children. What a tragedy. anon
before responding to the ''should i call the authorities'' part of the question, i was wondering how exactly the parent hit the child. anon
The poor child is not getting consistent limits or attention. You can't fix this alone, but if you're the only adult in the situation, you need to set limits with the PARENTS. That will provide a structure and in the long run will probably lower the girl's anxiety so she is a more pleasant guest.
How? Pay a visit and let the parents know, pleasantly, [1] that she can only come over if one of them accompanies her (otherwise you will bring her home) [2] that they need to CALL FIRST first to see if a visit is convenient, and [3] that if she has a temper tantrum you will be calling them to come pick her up IMMEDIATELY. Otherwise, bring the girl back yourself. All you need to say, pleasantly, is that a visit is ''not convenient'' or that you think the girl will calm down better at home. If the parents can't follow through on all that, you will need to entirely discourage visits.
Set up play dates with other children and activities that keep your daughter occupied (so she doesn't miss her friend so much), and accept visits from the neighbor child in more limited doses. I wouldn't go into a lot of explanation with your daughter, she will probably interpret your concerns as criticism of her beloved friend and be hurt.
Abused? If you've had to restrain her physically, maybe the parents have as well. If you start setting limits with the parents, I think this issue will probably make itself more obvious, in which case you can anonymously call Social Services. I don't recommend you accuse them directly, they are probably very insecure people who love their daughter but who have no idea how to parent her. A judge could mandate parenting glasses, but advice from you on that score would probably make them hostile and defensive, not open. --since you asked, my 2 cents
Perhaps you could try by showing some compassion? If the child is neglected and in need of attention.... Secondly, if you honestly suspect child abuse then you should contact child services and report the abuse. I also have to question your need to ''physically restrain'' the child? Really? Was the child hurting you, herself or your child? I think if I was 4 years old and another adult ''physically restrained'' me I would not react very well either. I feel very sorry for this child for many reasons... anon
Worried about neighbor's baby
Sept 2007
My residential home is next to a small apartment. When I'm in my sons' room, I can hear the new tenant (only because she's yelling at the top of her lungs) during the day verbally abusing her toddler in Spanish. She has two little boys, and from what I can tell when I'm home (I work part time) (one goes to the local elementary and one is home during the day) I have heard her husband too verbally abuse the children calling them mean names in Spanish only because they yell it's hard not to miss. I speak Spanish so I understand what they're saying and they're not saying nice words. I don't get involved with the neighbors and I've only noticed this situation because they've made it so obvious. I'm worried for her toddler and I wince when I hear the toddler crying out loud on and on during the day as she's verbally abusing him. I'm the mother of three sons and I have a toddler myself. I don't know if I should call CPS on her or simply mind my own business. I see the baby in the morning and in the afternoon (when I'm home but I'm not home during the day everyday) as they walk past in front of my house and the baby has no physical marks on him but I know he's being verbally abused. It's such an extremely sensitive issue and I'm just torn. I don't know the woman and she doesn't seem too receptive to being my friend as she always stoops her head low if she sees me in front of my house. Like I stated, I'm a mother myself and I know kids can cry on and on or maybe (as I try to give her the benefit of the doubt) the toddler is teething with his molars and she feels exasperated. I just don't know what to do. Should I just mind my own business? I don't mean to pry but it's so loud I am really worried for her baby. Please, any advice. Thank you. worried neighbor
If you feel that a child ''MAY'' be in danger/ being abused, then yes make the call. It is the duty of the CPS worker to investigate and determine if the child is at risk. Thanks for caring! shira
By no means do I mean to sound like verbal abuse of a toddler is okay. That said, I would SERIOUSLY discourage you from calling CPS. Once a child is in the child welfare system, the life of that family is no longer their own. While there are lots of loving foster families out there, the likelihood is that the child will end up in a situation that causes far more emotional damage than the present one.
If you fear for this child and his parents, then I suggest you reach out them. It will probably take time and may not be well-received, but that is the neighborly thing to do. Offer to go to the park with her one afternoon. Once you get to know one another make overtures to babysit so the mom and dad can have some down time. Eventually, you may become close enough to offer her some advice on parenting classes. You can offer to attend with her so she she doesn't feel like you think she's a bad mom. If you don't want to go this route, then slip some materials in Spanish on parenting classes at Bananas or someplace else under their door or mail them to the family. Try to identify inexpensive child care so they can take a break and secretly pass that information on to the family.
My point is, even though you live next door you don't know this family's full story and calling CPS into their lives is probably going to create more drama and stress for the kids than you can imagine. Study after study show that even kids who come from the most abusive of homes, where removal is warranted, still want to have a relationship with their families. It's not your place to make such a monumental choice for these kids based on what you hear through the window. another concerned mother
I agree that you have a right to be concerned for the kids, but you need to decide how serious the situation really is. I'm sure that the parent really do love them, despite the bad parenting. Maybe continue to keep an eye on the situation and keep remembering that some people have VERY different methods of parenting than you or I might. Verbal abuse is bad and can sometimes indicate something deeper, so I don't think you should ignore it entirely, but be very, very careful and know what actions CPS would take to resolve such a issue. Verbal abuse might also just be verbal abuse. I grew up in some rough places and it was not uncommon for parents to verbally abuse and swear at their kids. Okay, not a good thing, but as many of those kids turned out just was well as in any other demographic. Would the CPS's actions be beneficial? Would it be better for those kids to be with someone who did not love them as deeply as their parents, but who didn't verbally abuse them? I think sometimes we undervalue the importance of familial bonds. Even if some people are terrible parents, they often end up raising healthy kids. Also, watch the kids - do they seem unhappy and nonresponsive. One can always misunderstand a situation. Remain concerned, but be careful about how you react. anon
Call CPS and let them evaluate the situation. Trust your instincts. Even verbal abuse is abuse and this family might benefit from some intervention. Anon
You have an innocent and vunerable child in an abusive situation. Call both the police and child protective services, and do in ANONYMOUSLY so you and your family do not get hurt. If we have illegal aliens, also call the Dept of Homeland Security. Be brave and... Good luck! anon
Call CPS. You can do it anonymously, and there are often bilingual social workers who help families like this change their behavior. Anon
If you think they are being abused, call CPS. That simple. Sadly (in my opinion), verbal abuse is unlikely to get much CPS response, and probably won't get them any services, but in the best world, CPS would hook them up with some support services/parenting classes, etc. But even if you think your call won't go anywhere, it does serve a purpose. It has to be logged. That's valuable because if the abuse escalates into something worse in the future, there will be some history in the records should it ever come to CPS again. That history could mean the difference between CPS intervening or not. anon
You referred to the younger neighbor child as a ''baby,'' I'm wondering how old the child is and what he is being called. Is he six months old? Is he five years old? It makes a difference. I'm a CPS social worker and I recommend making a call to your county's CPS hotline. They'll ask you several questions to determine whether a report is warranted. Make sure you're specific about what you're hearing and how often it occurs. Provide as much information as you can gather: names, address, phone #. Make sure you tell them that the family is Spanish speaking. You can remain anonymous. Concerned too
My first instinct would be like yours: to get to know her. what about taking food over, like brownies, under the guise of getting to know the neighbors? I would also head over with parenting resorces. Check out bananas (heard good things) and also Talk Line. I love this place--volunteered there for 5 years talking to stressed out parents on the phone. That said, this kid's esteem and welfare hangs in the balance. I think where children are concerned, we can never be too nosy. Call CPS and make an anonymous report. Her kids wont get taken away and we probably wouldnt want that anyhow but it might be the only way she gets to the (mandatory) parenting classes she needs. The more reports, I think, the more likely the family'll get checked out.
Go ahead and call CPS-- they will know what to do. It's okay that you don't know what to do, they will assess the situation and act appropriately. Maybe the family needs help,m aybe this is something they need to work through-- by calling CPS you are not 'taking the child away' from the family, you are making sure someonw is watching out for the best interests of the child-- which is what you seem to want to do, but don't know how to do. Call CPS, they will know what to do. Mandated reporter
You can call child protection. They are the ones who deal with this. They will decide to investigate it or not. They (hopefully) know what they are doing. You can be anonymous. better safe than sorry
I'm a Marriage Family Therapist and have worked with many families who are being monitored through CPS and I've also had to report families to CPS myself. In my profession I'm a mandated reporter, but if I put myself in your place I believe I would make the call-better to call and report than perhaps one day regret the fact that I didn't report (if something happened to that baby). In my experience CPS doesn't just swoop in and take children away from their parents. I've had cases that appear to have been much more serious and CPS assessed, mandated counseling, provided in-home family counseling and can also provide/refer bilingual services and referrals. They also provide follow up care/visits, etc. This does not have to be a ''report OR reach out'' decision. You can report and be kind to the family if you feel safe doing so. Good luck and thanks for caring. a local Marriage Family therapist
My step-kids' mother is abusing the kids when they visit her
Jan 2005
Hi there, I am a full time step mother of 2 kids (6 and 8.5) , they live with my husband and i and usually see their mom every other weekend. I say usually because sometimes she misses visits or they dont want to go for various reasons. In general she is very absent from their lives, and when she is present, she is either neglectfull or abusive. That being said, here is the current situation that we need some advise on: My step daughter came back from her visit with her mother this past weekend saying that she had been spanked and that her mother had layed on her and squeezed her mouth shut to get her to stop crying. She said that her brother had been smacked on the back of the head and that They has been cussed at, being called f**kers. ( earlier this year she called Ana (8.5 years old) a bitch.) This is not the first time something like this has happened, though the time my husband and i called CPS we were told that things like this were considered a parenting style and not abuse. That abuse was somehow measured by the marks left, is this true?
We have communicated to her that we are NOT ok with any of these methods of parenting, and either have gotten the response of ''they are my kids i will disipline them how i want'', or, ''Ana is lieing'' ( she said that when Ana called afraid because her mom had gone next door to watch a movie at night and left them home alone). Most of the time though our e-mails get no response when dealing with this issue. Jason, their father has full legal and phyical custody. So, we dont know what to do. If we did something legal what would we do? We dont think that her not seeing them is good for them either, though, we cant stand by and let these things happen to the kids. We also cant afford a lawyer. We also worry that when she is angry at us,like when we bring these issues to her attention, that she takes it out on the kids.
We would love advise on any aspect of this situation, from legal to emotional...... thanks cris
That definitely sounds like abuse to me. If the mother wishes to continue to see the children, your husband should only allow her to have short, supervised visits -- in other words, he should be there as well. Horrible for him, I'm sure, but he HAS to protect his kids. I am no lawyer, so I won't pretend to give advice on that front ... but isn't there a Legal Aid or something like that in this area? Good luck. Your instincts are right on. Protect the kids!!! Sara
I spoke with my boyfriend who is a counselor with an agency that that works with CPS. He says that first of all, if you have to ask, it's abuse. Second, you have to keep calling, it's the accumulation of calls that will get CPS to investigate. Third, if you need to, get pictures of physical evidence. If you have any more questions, email me. lenamari
I trained as a Marriage & Family Therapist and I can share the situations from your description which would have been reportable as suspicion of child abuse. CPS then makes the decision what to do, if anything, but at minimum they should take a report and start a ''paper trail,'' i.e. if they get enough reasonable reports on the person they are likely to follow up on it. Firstly leaving a 6 and 8 y.o. alone at night sounds like possible grounds for child neglect, which is a type of abuse(how long? did they have access to food? their feeling scared/ unsafe are important factors.) Secondly, yes marks left are considered proof of physical abuse and CPS takes it very seriously but as a step/parent you are entitled to report the ''hearsay'' without marks; in your situation it actually sounds like concern for emotional abuse(another form of child abuse, harder to ''prove'' but CPS should hear your concerns and hopefully offer the mother some sort of support/ parenting class) even more so than physical abuse- the nature of the name-calling, the hitting and squeezing the mouth to stop her from crying may hurt their self- esteem and feeling of basic safety enough to be considered ''officially'' emotional abuse. I really feel for your dilemma- not having contact with their mother could be emotionally devastating for them, yet there are some real concerns for their well-being in her care, however infrequent it may be. You can't force her into therapy or parenting classes, but I personally would be remiss to let the children be around her if she doesn't get some help. I do think the current situation is abusive and emotionally damaging. The children are very lucky to have such a caring step-mother and father and they will still have to contend with the person their mother is. I hope you can all get lots of support whenever you need it. anon
Consider monitored visiting rights only. That way a social worker will watch the interaction and the mother won't lose all connections with her children. But, if the father has full custody he should play his toughest cards. It sounds like mom doesn't have any real interest in mothering except for the fact that she's trying to create waves by throwing her weight around as the biological mother. Also, consider apply for full guardianship/adoptive mother. That way you and your husband can fully protect the rights of those children. Keep a very precise journal of all phone conversations, times and dates, email interactions, marks or bruises, schedules of the kids, the words their mom chose when approaching you, anything the kids say that the mom said to them...EVERYTHING..All this information compiled is a great way to keep your story straight and clear. Good luck to you and your husband! Concerned For You
The verbal put-downs and cursing is emotional and verbal abuse. CPS is not likely to intervene but they will take a written report and keep it on file if you insist. The holding down and holding mouth shut should be considered physical abuse. There do not have to be marks, depending on what is occurring. Whether or not CPS intervenes depends on a number of factors - they will have to tell you what other considerations there may be. BUT, you should always call CPS unders these circumstances and insist they take a report. Even if they don't assign a social worker to investigate, that report will be on file. In essence you are ''building a case,'' so if further incidents occur, or if it becomes more serious, CPS now has a history and a better sense of the level of concern and need for intervention. In the meantime, educate your children about how to seek help - to always tell you or a teacher or other person of authority if they have been hurt in any way. And, teach your children how to protect themselves in more dangerous situations. (E.g. call 911 if they think they are in physcical danger.) Encourage your children NOT to exaggerate or embellish, or make anything up. If this happens, credibility can be lost and it can be harder to receive necessary help if ever needed. (I speak as a practicing child/family psychologist (Ph.D.) and mom!) Deb K.
Aside from the fact that this woman, your stepchildren's ''mother'' calls them names and hits them (which is reason enough to not let her see them, in my opinion) leaving them alone in the house is reason for anyone around them to call Child Protective Services. I have only one question for you. Why do you think it's not good for them to NOT see her? If this were an aunt or uncle would you put up with it? It seems to me if your husband has full legal and physical custody, there is no lawyer needed here. Just stop the visits. Sure she'll be pissed off, at first. But it sounds to me like she'll get over, based on what you describe of her. Just because she's their biological parent doesn't make her their ''mother''. Sounds like you and your husband are their true parents. I say stop the abuse (yes, it is already) before it gets worse and something more serious happens to them. anon
This is a very sad situation. To answer your question re ''abuse,'' the problem, in my understanding, is that an agency would have a very hard time making the allegation of abuse stick unless there was incontrovertible ''evidence'' such as bruising or scratches. Thus, the agency cannot address it as ''abuse.'' That said, it IS abusive, and something needs to be done about it. If they were my children, I would use whatever money is necessary to go back into court, armed with a document listing specific dates and complaints reported by the children, and ask the court to order supervised visition. I would also ask for an order barring overnight visitations with her until the abusive behaviors are stopped. This means that she would have to pay someone to supervise all her visits with the children, which should curtail at least some of the abuse (and you would have a witness if the abuse continued, which would be helpful in bringing charges). In my early childhood I had similar experiences. I am now 62 and want you to know that I am very grateful my father sought to protect me and allow me to have a more normal life. Ilene
I don't think your husband should allow the children to visit with their mother unchaparoned. She is doing damage to them whether the State thinks it is child abuse or not. Your husband holds all the cards since he has legal and physical custody of the children. I was in a similar situation with my ex-husband when my children were your children's ages. I had physical custody of the children. My ex was an alcoholic and I would not allow my children to visit him unless they were chaparoned by his sister or mother. His family promised me they would let me know if he started drinking during a visit so that I could come and pick-up my children. It turned out that my chaparones weren't always informing me when my ex was drinking and my children were too young to be able to associate changes in behavior to drinking. My daughter came home very upset one day by the things her drunk daddy told her. I told her that her father was sick and that she wasn't going to visit with him until he got some help and got better. I told my ex the same thing - I wasn't going to allow my children to visit with him until he got sober. The good news is he finally got sober and has been in recovery for many years now. Had he not, I would not have let my children see him again. The psychological damage and hurt that he was unintentionally inflicting on my children was unacceptable to me. Now that my children are in their late teens, they have told me more horror stories about their visits with their father when he was still drinking. They were happy I ''saved'' them even though they couldn't articulate that feeling when they were younger. been there
I would be very concerned about the mother's interactions with her children. I see restraining a child by laying on them and holding their mouth closed as physical abuse. If I were in your position, I would find a family law attorney immediately. There are places that provide free legal advice (for example in Contra Costa County such free sessions are held a few times a year. Call your county bar association for information about such services in your area.) Dealing with a non-custodial parent whose behavior is irresponsible is very difficult and painful for the parent who is truly concerned about the welfare of their children. I have had a similar experience and I found that documenting everything is very helpful; keep good records of what the children report and what you know of the mother's behavior, activities, track record. If you know that the non- custodial parent demonstrates irresponsibility by perhaps disappearing (no communication), doesn't hold a job, etc., these things may be helpful in demonstrating to the court that this person is not responsible enough to have unsupervised visits. The court can require that the visits with their mother be supervised by another family member or friend that you trust. Without getting legal help, you are on your own dealing with a person who may have mental health problems or worse. It sounds like she makes things up in an attempt to cover her own bad parenting. These types are very slippery and hard to pin down, especially if the abuse is viewed as ''minimal'' (how can abuse be minimal?!) or hard to document. Good luck. Been there
I am unclear as to what these children are getting out of a relationship with an abusive parent. Maybe CPS would not define it as abuse, but I am guessing if you spoke with a therapist who deals with children & abuse, he/she would say its abusive. Perhaps no overnight visits? Perhaps supervised visits by a safe but neutral thrid party? Tc
Hi! I am not an attorney, but I used to work as a paralegal for a family law attorney who did custody work, mainly for dads seeking custody of their kids. It sounds like the answer to your problem is right there in your question- their dad has full legal custody! There is no way to undo the harm that their Mom has already created, but the kids' Dad can take immediate action to protect them from further abuse, and it is definitely abuse no matter what CPS says (CPS is totally overwhelmed and understaffed). It sounds like the kids are put in some pretty dangerous situations by their Mom, let alone the psychological stuff that is going on. The kids don't need to be totally cut off from her, just protected from her- and this will allow them to have a better relationship with her anyway. As long as there are no visitation terms in his custody agreement, it is up to him to set the parameters of how much involvement the Mom has. So, never, never let the kids stay at her home again- that sounds way too dangerous for the kids! He can make sure that when she visits them, its in a public space, or in the Dad's home or Dad's relative's home. If the Mom has a trusted family member who would agree to supervise her visit in their home, that would work. But usually, an abusive parent has bad parenting skills because most likely, they were an abused or neglected child themselves so their relatives are usually of little help when it comes to good parenting. The children are still young and vulnerable enough to be hurt by their Mom's neglect and abuse- don't wait until something really bad happens- protect your kids, get tough and lay down some rules. Trust your instincts, act on them. When the kids are a little older, it will be different, but they need your protection now! all for being a proactive parent
What can I do to help abused children?
June 2002
I've read too many articles and seen too many news stories of children being abused and eventually killed. It's time to do something about it. I mean REALLY do something. But WHAT? Volunteering is an obvious answer and something that I can do immediately - but where? It seems that an overloaded child & welfare system is often (as reported by the media) unable to protect the children. Surely this isn't always the case. How can I get involved in the system? Can I volunteer? I may eventually go back to school for a Masters in Social Work. If anyone is in this line of work who can give me some meaningful direction I sure would appreciate it. Thank You. Amy
Your desire to do somthing to help abused children is truly commendable. Please let me refer you to a wonderful organization that can give you many opportunities to really make a difference in the lives of children. The organization is called Parental Stress Service and you can learn all about them on the web at www.psshelps.org
PSS is a full-service agency dedicated to strengthening families and preventing child abuse in Alameda County. They have many programs to helps kids and parents, including a 24-hour hotline, parent education classes, and counseling services. It is small, responsive agency that can really use dedicated volunteers and community donations.
There are many ways that you can support PSS and provide support to abused children. They have a variety of volunteering opportunities, including hotline telephone counseling (training provided). If you have room in your home, you could become a Respite Childcare Provider by providing temporary (3-72 hours) foster care to children whose parents are experiencing stress and need a break from parenting. PSS also has openings on its Board of Directors.
In additon to volunteers, PSS also needs financial resources. The website accepts online donations and gives information about how you can help PSS by joining the Charity Phone Program or donating a used vehicle.
I worked at Parental Stress Service for three years in an administrative position, and I can honestly say that the people there are incredibly hard-working, caring individuals who are doing a fantastic job helping families and children. Please consider this important agency in your search to make a difference. You can contact them at (510) 893-9230 Tara
If becoming a foster parent is not in the cards (a HUGE commitment) you might consider becoming a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate), a non-professional volunteer who serves as the special buddy of a foster child (playdates, etc) and advocates for him or her in court. Cristin
My charity of choice is the Bay Area Crisis Nursery in Concord. I have never found anything like it - it is a truly amazing place for children who have been abused or are in danger of being abused. From their site:
''The purpose of the Bay Area Crisis Nursery is to prevent abuse and neglect of children by providing support to families who are in stress or crisis. Our primary service is providing a warm, loving, homelike environment for children birth through five years of age by offering 24 hour residential care. Our services are free, confidential and voluntary.'' http://www.bacn.jkmas.com/
I know that they are always in need of donations and volunteers to work with the kids. Jaime
One place that works with children to prevent abuse and neglect is the Bay Area Crisis Nursery. They take care of kids for parents who are in crisis, and usually the children go back to them after the crisis is past. They are located in Concord and frequently need help with childcare or fundraising activities. This is a particularly wonderful organization because it allows parents to solve problems while knowing their children are cared for well, so the children don't become involved. http://www.bacn.jkmas.com/start.html is their website
Another great organization is Parental Stress Services, which is often looking for phone counsellors. Here's their contact information:
Parental Stress Service
1727 Martin Luther King Way #109
Oakland CA 94612
510. 893-9230 (Office)
510. 893-5444 (Crisis Line)
I've seen postings on Craigslist recently recruiting. Oakland Mom
Neighbor screaming at her kids - emotional abuse?
Sept 1998
I wanted to share with others in the group a moral dilemma I am faced with and get their suggestions, since I think a group of other parents is an ideal group to consult.
My family has rented a small house in a nice neighborhood in the Kensington hills, and we live next door to an affluent family with a beautiful house and yard, and two beautiful children, a 10 year old girl, and an 8 year old boy. The dilemma is that almost every morning of a school day for the past year, this woman screams at her children from around 6:30am till 7:15am. The children scream back, sob, and wail. Some of it seems to revolve around piano practice (they practice every morning starting at 7am). The problem isn't so much the noise (it is a horrible way to wake up, however). The problem is that I feel I should do something to stop the emotional abuse of these children.
I have heard from a neighbor that a previous tenant some years ago left, complaining that she couldn't take the woman's screaming at her children; at the time, the children were preschooler/toddler age. This neighbor also told me that she has heard the father being very cruel to the mother.
I don't have any evidence that anyone is physically abusing the children. And to be frank, I am afraid of the family. I don't want to talk to them about it because I am afraid of what they might do to us. The mother is obviously emotionally unstable. And they live next door to us. I realize I am being a coward.
I think it is great that in America people have personal freedom, but I don't think they should have the freedom to emotionally abuse their kids. Can someone think of a safe way to help these children?
Thanks for listening.
I feel sorry for the screaming in the morning mother--it seems like getting kids off to school in the morning brings out the worst in many of us, and adding piano practice to the melange can only be symptomatic of masochism. I myself had a little hissy fit this morning because at the last minute I couldn't find my car keys.... Lynn
Re: screaming neighbor. Make friends with the kids and let them know that what their mother is doing is wrong. Many successful people who had abusive, physically and/or emotionally, childhoods have been asked how they could overcome that feeling of worthlessness that abuse engenders in a child. These folks stated that there was always at least one important adult in their life that confirmed their own feelings about how badly, how wrongly they were being treated by their mother or father (or both, sadly, in some cases). This validating adult thus helped to prevent the child from internalizing the abuse, and thinking that they deserved it. It kept the abusive behavior external, and a situation that the child could look forward to getting out of someday. Good luck, Dianna
RE: Diana's comment on how to help the children of the abusive neighbors: She stated:Many successful people who had abusive, physically and/or emotionally, childhoods have been asked how they could overcome that feeling of worthlessness that abuse engenders in a child. These folks stated that there was always at least one important adult in their life that confirmed their own feelings about how badly, how wrongly they were being treated by their mother or father (or both, sadly, in some cases). This validating adult thus helped to prevent the child from internalizing the abuse, and thinking that they deserved it. It kept the abusive behavior external, and a situation that the child could look forward to getting out of someday.
I couldn't agree with her more. My father came from an overly strict, abusive background and perpetuated it in the house especially on me, the only daughter. My mother was just the opposite, determined to let me be what I wanted to be, as she came from a background all too similar to my dad's. I was a total rebel. When I was 12 my mom took me to her therapist once. The therapist told me in no uncertain terms that if I wanted to be me I should move away from my house as soon as possible forever, as my parents meant well but were too damaged to ever change the behavior/situation in a way that wouldn't crush my identity. I took as many units as possible through high school and went to summer school and graduated at 15, went away to college 200 miles away on scholarship, graduated at 18 and moved 3,000 miles away. Eventually we reconciled, with my core identity intact. The therapist's intervention bolstered my self-esteem enormously and gave me direction.
A Mom
I can very well imagine how you feel. We encountered a situation a bit worse a few years back living in another town where a nearby divorced, single mom verbally abused her elementary school child maybe once a week or more in the most ugliest screaming attacks - she would call her c---, useless b---- and more insults you ever want to hear (or she had ever been called?). We had just moved there and I was boiling so hot when we could hear her one evening across the neighborhood with our windows closed, that I was ready to jump up and shut her up for good. How to deal with that anger and the helplessness I felt? I was certainly not equipped to judge if this child would be better off without father and mother, nor did I want to be part of this mess. I was able to shut her up completely for about two weeks (I guess that is the standard length for any temporary improvement) with a typed note I slipped into her mailbox that night that read something like If we ever, ever hear you screaming at your child again like you did tonight, we will have social services investigate your behavior. Be aware - the neighborhood is watching you! I thought it would be more effective in her case to be permanently patrolled by an unknown force than giving her a chance to simply make a personal enemy. (Don't underestimate the kind of friends some people have). It never got to the point again where I felt I had to call an agency, but of course, I couldn't save the child from all the past abuse and the future misery (and that would be impossible anyhow). What I had to do was to respond in some way. I just couldn't be passive. Realizing what is within your control and what is beyond, thinking through risks and consequences is what you can do, then take action. I'm posting this anonymously because this mother got a job at UCB and who knows - if she's still around after these years - she might be reading this message. Your case does not seem that bad, but I have occasionally asked neighbors in our new neighborhood to keep to wake up after settling down for the night - and they were very responsive to that. Unless they are totally obnoxious or undesirable, I actually recommend frequent communication with your neighbors about meaningless and nice things. Then, when you have a concern, they are more apt to cooperate and it won't dominate/overshadow the entire relationship. Six nice exchanges balance one critical exchange. From: sara
Personally, I think that something has to be done to protect the emotional safety of the children who live next door to you and who start their day like this year after year.
Personal liberty of the parent does not include torturing children. I don't care if there is no physical abuse--emotional abuse can be a lot worse than physical abuse, especially since it has been an ongoing problem. It needs to be reported to a social service agency as soon as possible. It is appalling that the children have suffered this for so long, and I understand your desire not to poke your nose in someone else's business and your inner conflict caused by your concern for the children.
I don't want to sound excessively melodramatic, but I want to remind people that many of us were severely abused as children and that the hands-off attitude of the adults around them has done a lot of harm. A good high school friend of mine was raped daily by her father from the age of five until the age of 19, when she moved out of the house and eventually reported the crime to a therapist in the interest of protecting her 12-year-old sister. Our teachers had suspected the abuse, and not even the doctor who had prescribed birth control pills for her when she was a shy and nervous preteen acted on his suspicions. I hope that more and more people will do something to help victims who are too young and afraid to protect themselves. It has nothing to do with the invasion of your neighbors' privacy. It sounds as though the mother also could use some help.
Another Mom
Your situation sounds very unpleasant, but it isn't necessarily child abuse. In the first place, some families just yell at each other as a way of communicating, which can be pretty shocking if you come from a quieter family, but it isn't necessarily harming anyone. I have screamed at my kids loudly enough for the neighbors to hear, I admit it. Not often though. Growing up, my family viewed a big noisy argument now and then as a way to clear the air, and now that we are adults, we siblings still enjoy doing it occasionally. We are a big family, and we're close, but we are loud bordering on obnoxious. I'm notsaying yelling is for everyone - don't get me wrong - but for some people, that's just the way they operate.
It does sound like your neighbors are an unhappy bunch, but the question is whether the kids are being hurt to the point where someone outside the family needs to intervene. Just based on what you've written, I'd say no, but I don't have the whole story. If you think intervention is called for, you can set things in motion anonymously. But, if you feel pretty sure that no one is being hurt, then your main problem is the noise. I think I'd write a note to the neighbor saying something like you know that mornings are a really stressful time for families with kids, but the noise is carrying over to your house, and starting to bother you, and could they please try to be a little quieter? I don't think I would mind if someone wrote me a polite note like that. I would be embarrassed, but I'd be glad they told me instead of passing it around to all the other neighbors!
Here's a suggestion for the parent concerned about the screaming neighbors. At the Solano Stroll on Sunday, I picked up a pamphlet from Parental Stress Service, Inc, and although I haven't used their service yet, they have a 7days a week/24 hr. a day hotline:
Parental Stress Service, Inc. for Alameda County 1-800-829-3777 or (510) 893-5444.
One idea would be to have them send you a brochure you could leave anonymously in the screaming neighbor's mailbox with a note saying, Thought you could use this--a concerned neighbor, thereby informing them that you're aware of the situation without identifying yourself. Also, the hotline might be useful for you, too, as they could help you identify what else might be done, and what legally constitutes abuse (or perhaps direct you to someone who can help). They also offer short-term crisis childcare for up to 72 hours, and volunteer training. I asked what type of parents call; they said all income levels and types. I've located their card next to my phone--I'm sure I'll use them on one of those bad days, sometime! (My four year old has asked 'Why?' too many time today!) It's great to know there's help a phone call away.
Best of luck, and I feel for you. It must be hard to hear that every morning. I think you're doing the right thing to look into what can be done. --Roxane
Screaming, as well as physical actions, can be considered abusive and can be reported to Child Protective Services. - anonymous
To Dilemma--- I can think of a few ways in which you can help:
1. You could find out where the children attend school and go there to speak with a counselor about your concerns. This option of course would be reported, however, the children will be able to speak with a counselor first...and possibly the truths about the situation will be brought out. Appropriate help can be gotten from there.
2. You could make an anonymous call to the child protection agency. They keep track of how many calls they receive about a family, and act in a manner to protect the children. Contrary to what you might think, they really do try to help families stay together and work together.
3. You could talk with a family counselor, they may have some ideas or be able to intervene in some way.
I hope this helps...good luck to you and those children. B.
If there is no direct action to be taken, one thing you might try is to sign these neighbors up for information from various centers that specialize in domestic and child abuse -- several of them. It may be that the neighbors will be annoyed at the influx of rather pointed junk mail, but it's also possible that one of them may pick up a pamphlet and actually read it some afternoon. Certainly, if it isn't already obvious to them, they will realize that whatever is going on over there is making an impression on the people who live around them. You are clearly not the only neighbor aware of the problem! You're right to feel that _something_ should be done. Otherwise, by the time the children make the home situation known to their schools, it will probably be too late to do them much good (that seems to be the way it goes -- the truth comes out, but often not until high school and serious acting out on the part of the children, and psychological problems it will take them many years to work through). On the other hand, it doesn't sound like a situation in which the state should come take them away -- i.e. they seem to be better off than in a state home or other institution/foster setting. Great opportunity for whole-family therapy, if the parents can just see that something like that NEEDS to be done, ASAP.
Good luck, please keep us posted (otherwise, we'll worry!)
Re: the poster whose neighbor screams at her children every single morning ... I think raised voices once in awhile is not necessarily a bad thing ... but every morning IS problematic. It is also problematic to know how to approach a parent like that (even if the poster WAS willing to talk to her) without causing more anger to be (mis)directed at the kids.
What about slipping some very short, well-written literature under her front door? Perhaps if she knows she can be heard by the neighbors, she'll at least tone it down. (She probably doesn't realize other adults can hear her.)
Alternately .. or in addition ...what about calling the counselor at the kid's school ... and asking if they can provide any support to the kids? Those kids are old enough now that the caring intervention/support of a teacher or counselor might help them keep their self-esteem intact even if their mom doesn't change. (Presumably such a call could be made without giving one's name.)
Finally, I'd suggest that the person who posted to this net go to one of the very good free UCB counselors, both for support around the stress of having such a neighbor, AND for practical, professional help in strategizing how to safely protect these kids. I think some professional advice might be helpful here. -- Mary Carol
In regard to the abusive neighbor. I am concerned about all the comment about calling Child Protective Services and other intervention services. I personally would be very careful with this route. To say that one can surmise the situation inside a family by listening from outside is stretching it. What is actually happening may be very different that what we may think or guess. I think the best neighbors are those who tend their own garden and don't interfere until they know, really, what the facts are. Child Protective Service is hardly a panacea. They also can be abusive and very bureaucratic.
a Dad
After reading the feedback from other members on the list, I want to put in my evaluation of the situation. A report made to Social Services of Child Protective Services is not in any way a terrible stigma against the parents or a threat to family stability. Rather, it is the first step in a (much-needed) evaluation of whether the family needs help. My heart goes out to mothers who are so troubled that they scream every day. However, if I may use a medical metaphor, it is a symptom of a complicated family illness. Ideally, outside involvement will help this disease from being passed on to subsequent generations. The fact that the screaming has gone on for several years is an indicator of a high possibility of trauma to the children as well as a likely witness to the trauma the parent has herself undergone and is channeling out in a very disturbing fashion. Keeping in mind that the mother is probably suffering much emotional pain herself, it seems fair to take steps to ensure that she, as well as her children, receive counseling. The first step needn't be a state agency, but it should be clear that involvement from neighbors, potentially extending to county and state involvement, would reflect in this instance a desire to break a cycle of family suffering.
This seems like a no-brainer. Offer to watch her kids while she goes for a run. At her house, at your house, with a baby monitor, or etc. Problem solved.
As a runner and a mom of two small kids, I can understand how desperate this woman must be for that time in the mornings. You have an opportunity to provide her with support. It sounds like you are home in the morning and could offer to be a resource for her. Your kids know each other and might love spending mornings together occasionally. Please find constructive and supportive ways to resolve your concern and support your neighbor rather than immediately calling the police(!)
Several considerations should be made before bringing police into any situation, especially involving children. I completely understand your concern, so I’d personally offer to watch her kids.
If you don’t feel comfortable addressing your concern straightforwardly, I would position myself to be outside when she leaves, or perhaps have them over at another time for a playdate, and bring it up then. “Hey! I know it can be so challenging trying to have any self care time when we’re with the kiddos. I’d be happy to watch the kiddos for a bit if you need to run out. My kids would appreciate a play date.”
I urge you NOT to call the police. Police involvement may put this family into a spiral of horrible interactions and possible criminal accusations. You say she has always been kind to you. It would be kind of you to talk to her about it - gently - and, as another poster has suggested, offer to watch her kids when she takes her run. Please do not involve criminal agencies.
Agree with the previous commenter. The nice thing for a neighbor to do would be to offer some help - clearly she just needs a break, what busy mom wouldn't need that? Or even having a conversation with her about it could help. Resorting to calling the police and trying to make it anonymous is not an appropriate response. If you say she's always been kind to you, then don't you think you should return that same level of kindness back?
If this is her only offense as an unfit parent, imagine the pain and suffering the kids would go through if you do report her and they were taken away. Foster care is not a picnic; many kids are abused, mentally and physically, in foster care. (Many are cared for well too, I'm not saying it is all bad, but just being taken away from your loving parents is enough to cause emotional damage.) You could be tearing apart a family over "such a small problem". As a parent of similarly aged little kids, I don't think I'd do it, but she could be very close by, she could have a monitor on her phone that will alert her when the kids make noise, they prob a security alarm, working fire alarms and carbon monoxide detectors, etc.
If you are comfortable with it, you could bring it up and ask about it. "Hey, I've noticed that you go for runs in the morning and..." (insert whatever outcome you're hoping for). If you aren't comfortable, I'd just leave it. It doesn't sound like anything good would come from reporting an otherwise functional family to CPS.
If you have a relationship with this person, continue to do so. Talk to her and offer help and while at it express your concern, but only as a small part in the middle of the "I am your neighbor and friend? and "I am here to help if you need" sandwich. You may even find out that the kids aren't alone when she's gone. I am surprised your first thought was to call the police. Someone did this to my family without knowing what was going on and even though it ended with CPS apologizing to us on everyone's behalf and lamenting how people waste their time by reporting situations that present no danger to anyone, it was extremely traumatic to everyone and remains so to this day. And yes, I have no warm feelings to the person who did this and never will.
Have you considered talking to her directly? As in: set up a time to talk to her when she isn't stressed (and has childcare), and approach her with curiosity about what might be going on (it's possible that you don't know the whole picture). I also think it's possible to show a lot of empathy for her situation, and also share your concerns. I don't think that trying to deal with the problem indirectly will in any way improve your relationship with your neighbor or her children. Given what's at stake, it's probably worth working through the discomfort that might arise for you in the process. If your conversation isn't fruitful, consider using a mediator or consulting a city social worker (whether through city health services, the police department, etc.).
Oh my goodness, no, please don't call the police on your neighbor. Speak to her, Offer to help her. But do not involve "the system" - something that once in, it can be extremely hard to get out off. Also, I wonder where the mother might be from? This can also be a cultural thing. In some places, leaving young children for short periods of time is considered perfectly acceptable to do. How long is she even gone for during her runs? Does she run for hours on end? Or is it more like an hour or less? At any rate, why not talk to HER about your concerns before calling the cops on her?
It does sound quite risky even if the neighborhood is safe. Could you approach her and let her know of your concerns?
I think if you do that with kindness (i.e. I cannot imagine how hard it is to be solo for so many days since your husband travels) if will be well received. I would suggest you offer to do a swap so you can exercise (or do whatever you want) a few times a week while she watches your kids and then you can watch hers so she can go on her run. I was a sole custody single parent years ago and also a running fiend. I never left my kids alone to do it but I wished I could!!!!! It probably keeps her sane and she desperately needs it to survive all the solo time with toddlers and working too. Good luck.
You can call CPS anonymously. Please do it. You could save their lives.
The previous person’s suggestion is brilliant. Also consider you don’t know the whole picture, maybe a neighbor or friend is already keeping an eye via wifi baby monitor. Maybe she shares her location with trusted people in case there’s an accident. Consider having a conversation and get to know the full picture as humans and neighbors first.
Since she's such a nice neighbor and been kind to you, instead of calling the police, why not offer to watch them or have them over to your home while she runs?
Have you talked to her about it? Have you shared your concerns with her? Can you offer to watch her kids while she goes on a run, or loan her a jogging stroller so she can bring them? I agree that a 1 and 3 year old should not be left alone, but calling the police before making any other attempts to address this, especially if you have no other reason to believe she is harming or neglecting her kids, seems very extreme to me.
Don't call the police. Do you really think that she deserves to have her kids taken away because of this? Because that's the chain of events you will likely put into place. She's probably watching them on her phone on a wifi monitor the whole time she runs. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it personally, but they are not my kids and you likely don't know the entirety of her situation. Maybe the neighbor on the other side is watching them on the monitor! You really can't know.
I do like the suggestion of offering to watch her kids/the baby monitor since it sounds like you're around at that time anyway.
Perhaps you could watch the kids for her while she runs. You don't need to "accuse" her of leaving them home alone - approach it like "hey, do you need help so you can get a run in on the days when your husband is out of town?" Either at her house or yours - I'm sure you could work it out.
Calling the police is an escalation and puts her and children at risk of violence. Talk to her first
I would definitely not call the police on her. I would personally leave it alone. People have different tolerances for risk and you don’t know for a fact that she doesn’t have a monitor on her phone or that there isn’t a babysitter at their house.
Why not just talk to her about it before escalating to the police or CPS?
Hi - I am a foster/adoptive mom, and well acquainted with Child/Family services in Alameda County - which is what you would be triggering by calling 911.
Please don't call the police. Engaging law enforcement or CFS in this county could result in something much more traumatic and dangerous than what the kids are currently experiencing.
Talk to her. She may have some arrangement that isn't visible to you. Or you could offer to help!
I agree with the other poster. Just offer to help. That's the kindest thing you can do. As a single mom who struggled to make it all work, I had to make some less-than-ideal calls as I was just doing the best I could. My son turned out happy and accomplished -- AP/Honors student in high school and merit scholarship for college. But what would have happened if a neighbor called the police on me???
Sounds like something needing to be reported to Child Protective Services, and right away before something
happens to these little children.
Absolutely do not call the police on her. My assumption is her babies may be sleeping and she feels secure enough they are safe.
My suggestion is to check-in with her about it and ask her if she needs help watching the babies while she’s on her runs.
Yes, if you think they are indeed being left alone. That is 100% not ok, and could lead to something tragic happening to them. It's not your responsibility to provide care for them, but I think bringing it to the attention of the appropriate entity to evaluate the situation is.
Something could happen to all of us at anytime.
I highly doubt her kids will end up in a better situation if your call ends up with them being taken away from her.
I’d encourage you to fact find before taking any action. What’s the broader context? I find it very hard to believe she just up and leaves an awake 1 and 3 year olds alone as they’re playing. (At that age mine would cry and chase after me whenever I left anywhere, and my 3 yo had the capacity to open the door and follow).
Is it possible that there is another adult in the house when her partner travels that you’re just not aware of? How do you know his travel schedule? Are you making assumptions because of a car? Is she jogging miles away or just maybe circling the block, while keeping both sleeping kids on an audio monitor on her phone while they’re asleep in their cribs?
You could do a lot of damage to a a great parent/family—and their great kids—by making assumptions and jumping to conclusions.
I would not do that. Perhaps it's not ideal that they do this, but you could create even more problems for the family by bringing in police. She is probably a very loving mom who benefits from exercise.
You could ask if she's ever considered taking the kids on her runs in a stroller.
I'd suggest offering to look after her kids while she goes for a run. It sounds like she could use the support.
Gosh! Seems like it could be best to begin by being curious and talking to your neighbor directly— starting with inquiring if what you fear is happening is, in fact, the case!
Then you might offer help— care ideally, or troubleshooting if not.
I would take great care in ensuring you have asked questions, are correct in your assumptions, and have helped to explore other options before mistakenly involving the state or the police which could have terrible repercussions for the family.
If the children are in imminent danger, calling 911 is the way to go. If they are being neglected, you should call the child abuse and neglect hotline.
Do you see other signs of neglect? Are you 100% sure she doesn't have someone keeping an eye on them? Is it possible they're not safely tucked in cribs/beds sleeping, she's watching a monitor, and she's running in circles close enough to get back to them within a couple of minutes if they wake?
How do you feel about having a conversation with her? Let her know you're worried about her kids and offer to help keep an eye on them while she gets some time to take care of herself. Her child and your child are in the same program, you are part of her community. We should absolutely call CPS when children are in danger. But when it's a struggling (essentially single) Mama that just needs a little support to thrive, it's better for the kids of she could get that support from the community rather than possibly the kids being removed and put into foster care. If you offer help and she refuses, and/or there are signs the kids are being neglected and she's not meeting their needs even with support being offered, call the hotline
Personally I would report it. I had a similar situation with a neighbor and I tried to speak with her about it. She became an absolute nightmare. It’s not your job to watch her kids, as many other posters suggest. Report and keep your distance. If report to CPS and ask to be anonymous.
If this were my neighbor the question of how to respond would be keeping me up at night. After more than twenty years as a clinical psychologist working primarily with children and families in the foster care system, I have no illusions that a call to child protective services would automatically result in a judicious intervention. Yet if the neighbor really is leaving her very young children at home alone while she goes for her run—i.e., assuming there is not an alternate explanation, like a secondary caregiver you don’t know about—I think the very real risk to their safety would compel me to come up with some sort of response. In an ideal situation I would approach the neighbor directly and share my concerns, and perhaps offer to help, as other responders have suggested. But if I didn’t already have a trusting relationship with her, I can’t see myself doing that, and not just because I am a conflict-avoider. While the neighbor’s very poor judgement may reflect an isolated blind spot or a cultural difference that I'm not aware of, and not be part of a pattern, it could also be just the tip of the iceberg, reflecting complicated personal dynamics and beliefs that would best be evaluated by an outside authority. So much depends on the fine points of the neighbor’s parenting, some of which may only appear behind closed doors, so it is very hard to give advice from afar. But in the end I would rather err on the side of making a possibly unwarranted call to cps and trust them to do an appropriate evaluation, than wade into situation with such potential risks and find myself above my head; or do nothing, hoping for the best, and coming to regret it later. And, for what it's worth, I think the odds of cps removing these kids from the home are minimal--their culture has had a real shift toward family preservation, and the agency and their dedicated workers are often unfairly maligned. Good luck!
Thank you all for your feedback.
I can verify 100% that there is not another caregiver in the house. Their nanny does not arrive until later in the morning. I would gladly volunteer to help if this was an occasional thing, but it happens multiple times a week. My mornings are hectic getting my own children out the door. Her kids are not my responsibility, but I'm worried for their safety.
While she is nice, she would not change her behavior if I said anything.
There are so many solutions for her: get a peloton, have the nanny come earlier, etc. I honestly wish she had just chosen one of those.
She may be monitoring them from her phone with a webcam or something.
Since offering to watch her kids at her place isn't realistic for you, if your house is within half a block of their house, you could instead offer to watch their baby monitor remotely. That could help with your own peace of mind, while building your relationship with this person. Our friends who raise babies in community occasionally have another community member remotely watch the baby monitor from a few doors down in order to support date night for the parents while being within a minute walk away in case the kids wake up.