Applying to and Attending the UCs

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Parent Q&A

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  • Berkley High vs El Cerrito High - Acceptance in UCB

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    Sep 4, 2024

    Hello,

    My child currently attends an independent K-8 school, and we're exploring high school options. Berkeley High School (BHS) is at the top of our list due to its diverse programs, but we're concerned about issues related to drugs and violence. I've read that El Cerrito High faces similar challenges, albeit on a smaller scale.

    I'm particularly interested in understanding how the acceptance rates of Berkeley High students into UC Berkeley compare with those of El Cerrito High students. I've heard that while BHS has traditionally been a feeder school for UC Berkeley, El Cerrito High might now have a higher probability of its students being accepted.

    Could anyone share insights on this? I don't need exact statistics, but it would be helpful to know if El Cerrito High indeed has an advantage over BHS when it comes to UC Berkeley admissions.

    Thanks!

    Sep 4, 2024

    You can actually get definitive statistics on this. El Cerrito had a 22% acceptance rate for its applicants to UC Berkeley, while Berkeley High had a 14% acceptance rate. https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2024/uc-admissions-acceptance-rate…

    Sep 6, 2024

    There are some exact statistics (check SF Chronicle, which does an article annually) but all that past data goes out the window now that it has been made illegal to consider race. College admissions were chaotic this year according to all the college prep podcasts I listen to, and it's going to take a couple of years for it to settle down and have reasonable trends to actually factor into college planning. 

    What really struck me about your post was that you have an 8th grader at the very beginning of 8th grade, and you seem stressed about college already. I (wizened parent of 9th & 11th graders) would really encourage you to support your child this year as they navigate a very big transition, and encourage them to enjoy their last year of middle school without any talk of college - in fact, try to minimize incessant talk about high school. College is a really long way away and it's impossible to know now what your student will want or need in his/her college experience. Choose a high school based on the environment that will be most fun and supportive for your student, a convenient commute for your family, with challenge opportunities in the upper years, and lots of activities of interest to them. Activities are critical for making friends, especially entering from a non-feeder middle school. Ask your student what their interests are, and together look at the school websites to see if they exist on those campuses. Attend an event or two at both schools you're considering to assess their vibes.  Most of all, enjoy having a middle schooler! It's a much easier parenting stage than high school, I promise!

    Sep 7, 2024

    Cal takes a holistic approach to admissions - they also really look to diversify their student body through first gen, low income kids. It also depends on what your kid might want to study. Computer science had an acceptance rate of 1% for freshman last year. But I think changing the mindset here is probably your best bet. Send your child to the high school that will be the best fit overall. Your child can be successful without a UC Berkeley degree. 

    - signed a parent of a college student who does not attend Cal and a senior at BHS. 

    Sep 8, 2024

    One of the responders provided a link to UC admission statistics on the SF Chronicle website. The SF Chronicle website is great, but I just wanted to add that there is also an official UC admission numbers by high school website, which can be found here: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school

    To see exact numbers, select the UC campus, the source school, and the year. 

    I also wanted to comment on the second responder's statement that "past data goes out the window now that it has been made illegal to consider race". This is simply not true. California universities have not been allowed to consider race since 1996, when Proposition 209 banned the consideration of race in admissions. The acceptance rates to UC Berkeley from Berkeley High and El Cerrito High have been quite stable from year to year, and will likely be similar in the next few years. 

    Best of luck to you and your child!

    Sep 8, 2024

    I just have to correct the incorrect information in the reply from Anonymous on Sept 7 ... The Univ of California stopped considering race in admissions 28 years ago!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209.  So there's no need to 'take a couple of years for it settle down"... at least, not for UC Berkeley, for which you are asking about.

    Also, I find nothing in your post that suggested you are "stressed."  You're asking about admissions to UC Berkeley because you think that's a criteria for selecting a high school since you're child is in 8th grade.  Seems like you are doing your due diligence on picking a high school as a parent of an 8th grader, so congratulations for thinking ahead!

    Now, regarding your questions... some schools keep statistics on admissions from their high school students, such as the GPA, AP course count, SAT scores of students which were accepted, waitlisted, rejected, from each college.  Maybe you can reach out to those high schools to get that information.  

    From my experience, college generally compare students only from the same high school.  They aren't allowed to compare across high schools because each school has different courses available and different grading policies and AP policies.  So, one thing to consider is how would you kid compare to the top students in Berkeley High and El Cerrito High?  If most kids getting into UC Berkeley are taking 10 APs, then your kid would need to do similarly in order to be a competitive applicant.  Look more at how many kids get into UC Berkeley and what the background, stats, qualifications of those kids that get in and see which one might better match your kid.

    Sep 8, 2024

    If you aren’t zoned for El Cerrito High, it will be difficult to get in, and may even be difficult if you are zoned and haven’t been there for k-8.  Although there is supposed to be a spot for you if you are zoned, and there is no room, they can divert you elsewhere. Anyway, the posters are correct. The data is available on the UC website and SF Chronicle has run several articles about admit rates across California

    El Cerrito consistently does very well in regard to UC admissions. It is not a school without challenges, but both of my kids went there and had a great time and came out well educated. Band and dance programs are great, there’s a great IT academy, plenty of clubs and sports, and is more diverse racially and economically than Berkeley High.There’s good parent support. Both of my kids got into top UCs and got exposure to and made friends with all sorts of different people. We feel really lucky that was available to them.

    For the person who said schools now have to contend with being race-blind….the UC’s have been race blind since Prop 209 passed in 1996. It had an immediate negative effect across many different indicators. Those results are on the UC website as well. Google, “Research and Analyses on the impact of Prop 209 in CA.”

    Sep 8, 2024

    UC itself provides soooo many statistics on acceptance here: https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admissions-source-school. That said, while my child was UC-eligible, she was not interested in any UC campus and chose, completely on her own, a small, private, women's college, where she was excited to be there every day and did really well. Now, applying to graduate schools, she still is looking for the personal environment of a small campus. I agree with the previous poster to let your kid be a kid and enjoy school where they are with activities, clubs, and classes that interest them and not all about focus on one particular college years into the future. Good luck!

    Sep 9, 2024

    Another source for definitive statistics is UC Admissions by source school: 

    https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/admi…;

    However, it does not provide information on the specific majors or fields applicants applied to, which makes a huge difference in admissions.

    I have a 10th grader at BHS. If your student wants to get into AC or BIHS, there is probably a high chance of getting it, but nothing is guaranteed at BHS, the Small Learning Community(SLC), the classes your student might want to take, etc. Your student put down what they want to take, but no guarantees.

    Regarding drugs and violence, it hasn't been a problem for my student.  It depends on your student, the type of friends he might seek out, etc.

    Sep 10, 2024

    Thanks everyone for sharing your insights, totally appreciate it. The admission stats link you've provided is very helpful!! Please note that I'm not stressed out, my kid wants to go to BHS  and we're collecting data points to see which school is a better fit for him. Thanks again!

    Sep 18, 2024

  • Is two years of language really not enough for the UC system?

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    Apr 18, 2024

    Hi,

    Wondering if there are any parents out there who have kids who only took two years of language and still got into UCs? My daughter dropped her language to take some interesting AP classes (in place of a pretty abysmal language class) but now we are wondering how to get the language in too.  Additionally, if your kids didn't complete their language requirements at their high school, can you recommend some alternative asynchronous programs that were accepted by UCs? We are looking at UC Scout and Berkeley City College. I'd love to hear any specific experiences, suggestions or creative solutions to this problem. You can also contact me directly. Thank you! 

    Apr 18, 2024

    Our college freshman was accepted to all the UC's (except UCLA) with only 2 years of language, but they have a learning difference and their LOTE was ASL. 

    Generally speaking, for the more competitive UC's and barring a LD, you will want to do at least 3 if not 4. Our 2nd kid will apply this year and will have 4 years. 

    UC Scout or BCC are definitely a good way to go - they could try to squeeze a whole course or 2 in over this summer if they are ambitious enough. Tilden Prep also offers UC approved courses, but is much more $$$

    But if they are not applying to a top UC it's probably not a deal breaker if they just meet the minimum, especially if they opted for a really challenging course load. Good luck!

    Apr 21, 2024

    Our son was accepted to every UC with 3 years of Spanish and no learning issues. But he took 7 APs and 7-8 community college classes. If it were me I’d have them do the class via UC Scout possibly supplementing with a tutor (because it’s hard to learn languages online). BCC classes are hard. It would be a shame to miss getting into a UC for this reason.

    Apr 22, 2024

    Having the minimum foreign language credits shouldn't be a barrier to getting into a UC if she has exceeded the minimums in other subjects, with AP classes and good grades etc.  College admissions offices do look at the whole picture.  But of course if she has her heart set on one of the most competitive campuses or majors, it's worth considering other resources to get another year or two of language.

    My daughter took French 3 at Tilden Prep, after having some issues with COVID-remote-school era French 2 at Albany High.  She did well at Tilden and was able to take advanced French to fulfill the foreign language requirement of the (private) university where she is now in one semester rather than two.  Tilden is expensive but very flexible; the classes are 1:1 with a teacher and self-paced.  I'm not sure how much they are offering remote/online these days, vs in-person at the Solano Ave location, but it's definitely possible to fit an entire semester class, possibly even two semesters if the student works quickly, into a summer session.  Or the student can take a class three afternoons a week, after their public HS day.  The school is accredited and the classes qualify for the a-g requirements.

    Apr 22, 2024

    My graduating senior took just 2 years and was accepted at UC Davis and Santa Cruz. Another option though more expensive is Fusion Academy which they can attend in person or remotely 1 on 1 within their scheduling needs. This 12. 5 weeks for 2-1 hour classes weekly and 2 -1 hour homework cafe. 

    Apr 22, 2024

    If your daughter takes Spanish 1B through BCC or any community college it will fulfill the 3rd year HS language AND the UC language requirement once she gets there (assuming she's majoring in something that includes this GE requirement.) You can look at Rate My Professor to get an idea of the class format for a specific professor. She could even take it over the summer. Another A-G approved HS option is Silicon Valley HS. I believe they offer Spanish 3 online for a lower cost than other online providers. My son, now at UC Davis, took a few of their classes to supplement. Incidentally, he took Spanish 3 at his high school, but now really wishes that he had taken Spanish 1B instead. 

    Apr 29, 2024

    UC Scout was a great way for our daughter to do her 3rd year of language.  We were in a similar situation, after 2 wasted years of language in our local high school.  Our daughter took UC Scout for 3rd year.  She did the first semester of 3rd year (3a) over the summer--and that was a good call.  Since she didn't learn the first 2 years of language, it was a heavy lift and she really needed all summer to comfortably cover the material in 3a, and backtrack to cover the implicitly expected materials from the previous 2 years at the same time.  That said, she learned more of the language that summer than she ever did in 2 previous years of in class learning at her high school.  UC Scout was surprisingly good, well structured, clear expectations, sound syllabus etc.  She then did 3b independently in addition to her classes in the fall.  She's glad she did UC Scout and opted out of the terrible language class at her high school.  Since UC Scout courses are specifically built with the UC requirements in mind (check their website--they talk about AG requirements in detail) it should in theory, fulfill that 3rd year language recommendation.  Community college is also a great option, but she liked that UC Scout allowed her the utmost flexibility to cover material at odd times around other activities that summer.  With all that said, she won't be applying for another few years so we can't fully speak to impact on UC college applications yet.

    May 1, 2024

  • Seeking legal advice to appeal out-of-state tuition for UCSD

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    Sep 30, 2023

    We've lived in California since March of 2022, but UC is charging us out-of-state tuition for a second year. 

    We need a good lawyer who can swiftly draft a convincing appeal to UC Regents, Office of the General Counsel.

    TIA for any suggestions or advice!

    Sep 30, 2023

    Why did you move to California? Was it for school?

    Their website states:

    You must be continuously physically present in California for more than one year (366 days) immediately prior to the residence determination date of the term for which you request resident status. If you moved to California primarily to attend the University of California, you are here for educational purposes and may not be eligible for a resident classification for purposes of tuition.

    I moved for a job, and could prove that I had an offer from the job and that was my reason for moving from another state, and that was enough for me to be classified for in-state. I didn't need a lawyer, but this was years ago. If you moved to California to begin a program at UCSD, then I doubt they would allow it. Good luck!

    Oct 4, 2023

    The residency rules and appeals process are pretty straightforward. Assuming you changed over your driver's license and voter registration, filed CA taxes, own or have a lease for a CA home, etc. in March 2022, you should have been eligible beginning with the spring quarter. If any of those were delayed into April 2022, you'd be eligible for the first time for the current fall quarter, but might need to appeal to get the information entered. That process is documented online and doesn't require a lawyer. The appeal decisions are final so a lawyer likely won't help after that point. The Nonresident notice should tell you why they think you are a nonresident, and you'd just need to provide the necessary paperwork to correct that.

    Oct 4, 2023

  • Defer one year possible for Calif-based public colleges?

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    Sep 28, 2023

    Hello knowledgeable parents of college-aged children! 

    My daughter would like to do a gap year - that's great! But... should she apply to Calif-based public colleges now or later? We have heard that Cal State universities and UCs don't allow deferral. Just flat out don't. This would mean she would need to apply later (while she's living abroad in her gap year) which seems hard. Or perhaps you've heard about whether these schools do in fact offer one-year deferrals but they just don't advertise it?? She's an amazing student with high GPA, if that matters.

    Sep 28, 2023

    The CSUs do not allow deferrals. They have so many applicants that they can't hold spots open for students for a year that could be filled by other students. It looks like some UCs do have deferred admissions or at least UC Davis does. She can check the campuses she is interested in to see what their policies are. She will probably need to apply the fall of her gap year to avoid applying twice. She should be sure not to take any college courses during her gap year or she will not be able to apply as a freshman.

    Oct 2, 2023

    My son took a gap year. He wasn't sure if he was going to or not and so he applied during his senior year and then again during the gap year. I think you are right that there are no deferrals for UC or Cal State system. I think the only thing that might be hard was coordinating letters of recommendation for his applications--but those weren't required for all schools (he applied to non-UC schools also).It's all on line pretty much so doing it from abroad seems doable.

     I might suggest that your kid go ahead and apply this year so that she can see what it entails. She could stop short of hitting the submit button, for example. Is it possible that she would get in this year to her #1 school and then reapply next year and not get in? Yes. And the opposite could be true too. There is quite a bit more chance built into the system than anyone would care to admit. 

    Oct 2, 2023

    I suggest you contact admissions at select campuses to get answers directly from the source. 
     

    One of my students decided to take a gap year after applying to colleges as a high school senior. He had to reapply as a first time freshman the following year. 
     

    One tip: to retain Friday year freshman vs transfer student status, avoid taking any college level courses (including community college) after high school graduation. 
     

    you can also contact the CSU and UC application support lines which are now both open and not yet too busy  

    UC (800) 207-1710 

    CSU calstateapply [at] liaisoncas.com 857.304.2087

    Oct 2, 2023

    Some do allow deferrals- UC Davis is one that definitely does. Best to check with the specific campuses that you are interested in. https://www.ucdavis.edu/admissions/undergraduate/apply/deferred-enrollm…. You cannot get any academic credits during the gap year though.

    My son recently did a (domestic) gap year and he ended up doing his applications during it. It was definitely harder that way, but the gap year experiences gave him more to write about in his essays and enhanced his application overall. 

    Oct 2, 2023

    The UCs say they only give deferrals for military service or health issues, and I think that's pretty close to the truth. My daughter had a friend who did a gap year language program sponsored by the US State Department and she managed to get a deferral, but I don't think it was easy. My daughter wanted to do a gap year but her senior year grades were not on par with her usual performance (it was mid-pandemic online school). Because she'd have to apply to the UCs and Cal States with that on her record the following year, she decided not to jeopardize the choices she had and started college that fall.

    Oct 2, 2023

    UC Davis is the only one that allows a gap year.  My niece went through the deferral process (2020 COVID HS graduate) and she’s now at Davis. It was her only deferral option but she seems happy there. 

    Oct 9, 2023

  • What’s happening with college admissions?

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    Nov 16, 2020

    Hello,

    My son is a junior. His grades are currently all over the map— online learning is not ideal. He gets pretty decent grades but has skipped to Bs and Cs. He wants to get into a UC school but it’s not looking likely. Can anyone give a definitive answer as to what UC schools are asking for in terms of admissions during COVID? I’m not getting straight answers from admissions counselors as no one seems to know. The SAT is optional, grades are all over the place, clubs are difficult or not meeting, and extracurriculars are lacking. Kids are having a hard enough time with this pandemic—- so what do colleges want? 

    Nov 16, 2020

    My understanding is that students need a minimum GPA of 3.0 to be admitted to a UC.

    Nov 23, 2020

    I’m not an admissions officer, but I think multiple 11th grade C’s might be difficult to overcome for a UC acceptance straight out of high school, even with the pandemic (except for football recruits and such, who are not held to the same academic standards). He may want to look at some CSU options or consider the community college transfer path. By design, it is much easier to get into UC from community college. It’s not unusual for kids who didn’t get into Merced out of high school to get into UCLA and Berkeley from a community college, if they get good grades there.  It’s a cost-effective path, too.  I’m sure he’d get into many private colleges as well — just not the most selective ones, which tend to also have the most aid dollars to give out.  If money is not an object, I’d consider those as well.  Many of them are very good schools, and he might find the right fit at one. In my opinion, it’s all about fit. Not going to UC straight from high school is not a disaster, and he might find the path he follows instead was the right one for him all along.  

    Nov 23, 2020

    The UC's look at grades, the answers to the personal insight questions, and extracurriculars.   He will more likely get into a UC's if he has a great answers to his personal insight questions and extracurriculars.  There are extracurriculars he can do even during COVID. He could do something related to childcare if both of you are ok with that during COVID.  If not, he could do virtual extracurriculars such as The summer ACLU high school program.  https://www.aclu.org/high-school-program  Many martial art studios and dance studios are giving virtual lessons.  He could create his own website and start a mini business.  He could help a small business with their social media. He could have a side business doing content creation. Here is a job that is a few volunteers hours a week through the United Nations https://www.onlinevolunteering.org/en/think-tank-altercontacts/transcri… would recommend that he try to get at least all B's but the schools do look at kids from all backgrounds. It all depends on motivation and how much he wants to make lemonade out of lemons.  Contact me for more information. 

    Nov 23, 2020

    I am not in admissions but it seems to me that the skills that one needs to succeed academically with online learning are similar to the skills one needs to succeed in college (assuming that the quality of instruction for online learning is not the problem). For example, prioritizing going to class and doing homework can be a challenge for a lot of first year college students who have more freedom now that they are on their own. Perhaps you should focus on building up whatever skills he needs to succeed now in his current learning environment. Then focus on finding an academic environment where he will succeed in college.

    Nov 28, 2020

    I don’t think anyone knows the clear answer to this question, as this is such an unprecedented year. This year’s grads/admissions may give you a glimpse of how UCs are prioritizing applications in the times of Covid.

    In terms of extracurriculars, your teen could look into volunteer work that would support those hit hardest by Covid in our community. The Berkeley Food Pantry has a volunteer program (outdoor, socially distanced) and Berkeley High has organized a food assistance program, I think called HelpBerkeley. Many Berkeley High clubs are now online. There are letter writing campaigns for nonprofits that can be done from home. There’s social media work that can be done from home for nonprofits. Just some ideas ;)

    my daughter is a senior this year and has been working a little with a college advisor, mostly on choosing where to apply and on her essays. The essays are going to count more in these years with no testing. Her essays really focused on the “insight” part of what they call the “personal insight questions”..... apparently they (UC) really wants to get a sense of the person and their character. And then the key is to throw in some information about who you are as a student as well. 
    I would encourage you to look beyond the UCs. It is ridiculous what it takes to get in these days.....
    But maybe these times of moving beyond test scores will be good for everyone. 

    Nov 30, 2020

    Your guess is as good as mine, but my son, who is a senior at a rigorous high school, has a 3.0 gpa and he did not apply to any UC’s. He felt he had a chance at Merced or maybe even Riverside, and decided he would rather apply to CSUs in locations more appealing to him, as well as less competitive out of state schools. I heard from a college counselor that you need at least a 3.7 to get into any UCs, except *possibly* Santa Cruz, Riverside, and Merced. It’s actually quite difficult to get into some CSUs, too, like San Diego and Long Beach with Cs pulling  down your GPA (my son has several). The good news is Bay Area kids get preference at the local CSUs, top 100 type schools outside of California are much less competitive for admission and community college in CA should be free! There is a school for everyone, and plenty of chances to turn things around along the way. It can’t hurt to apply to UCs, but your son would probably be happier if he broadened his options. 

    Nov 30, 2020

    My son is in community college (DVC in Pleasant Hill), where there is a TAG program.  You can automatically funnel into a UC.  Not Berkeley or UCLA, but maybe Davis or UCSC?  He's building confidence and skills there, while figuring out what he wants to do with his life. 

    Dec 16, 2020

  • Start UC online in the fall or wait?

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    May 16, 2020

    Many other families must be grappling with the question of whether offspring should go to college in the fall or defer admission / take leave of absence in light of college being all or mostly online. At our house, our youngest was going to start at a UC as a junior transfer from community college, he has been living at home and working very hard for this for the past year and a half after a bad start at a CSU, and was really looking forward to leaving home, living in a dorm with tons of other young people, and being at a large research university with a great department for his major. However, online learning has been very hard for him as he has ADHD (not diagnosed until college.) His doctor strongly recommends against his taking online classes, plus he is a biology major and online labs have been ridiculous. There's also the issue of paying UC tuition for online classes, for us it's going to be steep and it would be good if our kid stayed home an additional semester working and saving $. On the other hand, I know that they are greatly improving online teaching methods for this fall and it will be quite different than the current hastily improvised online classes that were switched over mid-semester, and that tons of students deferring will be even more economically disastrous for our public universities... What are others thinking?
     

    May 16, 2020

    I think the answer for you is different since he is a junior transfer. 

    My train of thought for my teenagers goes to--this might be a great time to get accepted to a "reach" school that you have your heart set on because there will be less competition this year. For your son's set of unique circumstances, the answer is not as clear. If UC will let him defer, I'd strongly consider that. OR, it might not be a bad idea to just take a minimum number of classes/get rid of some core requirements (which he may already have done) just to get used to the idea/community. 

    As I always tell my kids--don't let the decision paralyze you. Make it, and then make sure it's the best decision for you--work hard to make it so!

    May 18, 2020

    I’m curious about this too. My senior is planning to enroll this fall at a CSU even if it’s online. Here’s why:

    1. When campus does open, she can roll right in because she’ll already be enrolled.

    2. She doesn’t want to start at a community college and then have to reapply as a transfer student in two years because she’ll no longer be eligible as a freshman. 
     

    3.  All her units will be from the same university, and since she plans to double minor it will be easier to figure out which classes count toward graduation.
    4. if everything is online, we are exploring options of going to school from anywhere if there is a way to do so safely. We’ve looked at living in both New Zealand and in Spain while taking her classes online.  We have done the research and will just need to plan the details if either of those countries are open. 

    We have had many conversations about the fact that she is beginning her journey in a new world. I’ve really encouraged her to keep an open mind and figure out what new opportunities she has that weren’t there before. Yes, this sucks. And yes, her college experience is not going to be what she thought it was. But I don’t want her to chase something that doesn’t exist anymore. She can still have an amazing college experience. It will just be different from what she was expecting.  The uncertainty is difficult and she is so ready to start her life as a young adult. 
    I can’t wait to hear what other parents have come up with. Good luck to everyone!

    May 19, 2020

    I like how the last responder, Lula, is making lemonade out of lemons. Yes, why not combine college with living abroad if you easily can!

    But back to the OP's question, speaking as someone who graduated from college not *that* long ago, when I think back on it, every memorable experience there was an in-person interaction. In my case it was a private school (Mills) and what I thought made that school worth the tuition were the cultural opportunities and resources available on campus -- and I didn't even live on campus! There were amazing speakers, events, and exhibits seemingly every week. Not to mention I took many classes in book arts that definitely could not be virtual (unless maybe you owned your own giant letterpress). I remember being in a "History of the Book" class with 8 students where we looked at rare books and manuscripts from Mills's collection in every class. I realize that's not what your child is studying, however you said online biology labs have been terrible, and I feel like an online version of that class *also* would have been terrible. So I can relate somewhat.

    Now as a parent paying school bills I absolutely would not want to pay UC tuition for online classes. And your child's difficulty with that kind of learning make it an even more bitter pill to swallow. I would urge deferring if at all possible and trying to find something for your student to do during the pause that makes it feel like less of a letdown. A work opportunity that involves travel and could give him/her a sense of independence while saving some money would be ideal, I think.

    I really sympathize with your situation and hope it works out for the best.

    Jun 7, 2020

  • College choice: UC vs. CSU

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    Jul 7, 2018

    Did you go to college far away or closer to home? Are your teenagers already in college or will be going to college in the next few years? Please share what would you choose in this situation. 

    My daughter is 15. She is the only child and we are very close. Her grades are good  but not stellar (GPA 3.6). She will be 17 when she graduates high school. She has a few health issues plus ADD, anxiety and depression that made last year in school very difficult which affected her grades. Had higher grades before. 

    There is a midrange state University 25 minutes from home. It has a major of her choice. She can live at home and drive to the campus or live freshman year in the dorms to get college experience and the rest of years at home. It still will be less expensive then any other school.  

    Common sense says to me that it is the way to go and there are benefits of going there including:

    1)living nearby so I can help easier if she needs help (given her health and emotional issues it is my main concern now), 

    2)saving a lot of money and graduating without loans. Her future job of choice is not one of the high paying jobs but she really wants to do it. We do not qualify for financial aid. 

    4)at that local school it is easier to get classes needed (less impacted), easy to change majors if she decides to and it is less competitive and less stressful environment

    4)she can visit often her dog and me which will make us much happier :)

    However downsides are:

    1)since the school is smaller and less well known there will be less opportunities for internships and the name of the school is important for getting a good job after. She wants to get to the best school possible to have a better chance for future job prospects. Her grades would allow her to get into a better schools but they all are farther away.

    2)kids become more mature and learn more lifeskills if they are away from home and this is what most of her classmates going to do-go away for college. Would she be in a huge disadvantage if she stays locally for undergrad and may be go away to a bigger school for Grad school? She told me yesterday that wants to experience other places. How important is to get this experience at 17 vs 23 to be successful as a young adult in the US?

    Plus, I am a single mom, so my own desire to be close to her, and my mentality of being raised in the country where children stay at hometown if they can, also contributes but I do not want to be selfish and want to choose what would truly be the best for her. 

    Would you encourage your child to go to a good local less expensive school that we have enough savings to pay for fully or to take loans and go away to a better known bigger much more expensive school? 

    We are deciding between California State University vs UC (except UC Berkeley, UCLA or UCSD- scores are unfortunately not at the range for those). What would you do?

    Moderator Note: See also past advice "Which college?" https://www.berkeleyparentsnetwork.org/advice/which-college

    Jul 7, 2018

    Tough choices. You know your daughter best. Make your decision from love, not fear. Yes, going away to college is an experience, but not every 18-year-old are mature enough to manage the roadblocks of being away from home i.e. parties.  

    Here are my personal thoughts: debt-free college, or at least minimum debt (less than $30k). Community college is also an option, keeping her close to home, giving her time to acclimate to college life. Berkeley Community College is a solid choice, as it's a feeder into the UC system. As far as CSU vs. UC, it depends on your daughter's interest/major. If it's not engineering, medicine, law, or business, CSU is adequate. I'm a former high school life skills teacher, and it's unfortunate that grades have become like an Olympic competition. But grades are not a predictor of a student's success. Life skills are. good luck.

    Jul 9, 2018

    Our daughter had some of the same challenges as yours, except that her grades in high school were MUCH worse; she nearly didn’t graduate. She went away to a junior college, and while the first year was almost a repeat of her HS years, somehow starting in her 2nd year she completely turned herself around. She finished her lower division transfer courses at the JC, getting help with her ADHD as well as guidance to ensure she completed the transfer requirements. She got into all of the schools you mention: UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UC San Diego. She is now very happy at UC Berkeley. (She applied as a regular junior admission, not using the guaranteed admission program that community colleges offer).

    Two things: I think the experience of “going away” to college is extremely important (she was in another city for JC).  I wouldn’t envision your daughter getting as much out of her experience if she lives with you, particularly during her upper division years. 

    And I believe the college she attends absolutely does matter. Kids at UCB, UCLA, etc., are going to have opportunities that a child at CSU East Bay (or other) simply won’t have. 

    I’d consider the community college route. The guaranteed admission to a UC campus (does not include Berkeley or UCLA) holds if she maintains a 3.0 there. Both the community colleges and UC campuses will have programs that provide accommodation for her ADHD, should she desire that.  

    Best of luck. 

    Jul 9, 2018

    Have you considered the community college transfer route? Your daughter could stay at home an additional two years, save a ton of money, then transfer to her pick of UCs (or CSU or private college) for the remaining two years. It is MUCH easier to get in to the highly selective UCs as a community college transfer than from high school. HS grades and test scores will not be considered, only her community college grades. OTOH CSU is a great option. Keep in mind your daughter is going to mature quite a bit from age 15 to 17 and have her own opinion. I have one CC kid and one CSU kid.

    Jul 9, 2018

    Graduating without loans is huge, especially if her future job will not pay well. But allowing her to make her own decision is also important. And a year in the dorm is indispensable.  I suggest you talk to her about the pros and cons and let her make her own decision. My son when to college near home (but didn't live at home) and is a competent adult now. He spent most summers in town, but did have a summer internship in Europe. Some time abroad could compensate for going to school close to home, even if it is just a summer program. 

    Jul 9, 2018

    I did a combination of close-by CSU and UC, my daughter, an upcoming CSU freshman, is considering the same, and it might work for your daughter as well. I spent my first two years living in the dorms at a CSU, and coming home to work in Oakland on the weekends/vacations. I spent my Jr and Sr year at a close-by UC, one quarter in a dorm and then in an apartment, still working in Oakland on the weekends, but getting away a little on my own and working in Orange County and Hawaii over the summers.

    Note that CSU to UC is not a "transfer," and I did lose some units in the switch but it was worth it because the UC had better opportunities in my chosen major. Just because she chooses a college now, doesn't mean she is stuck with it for four years. CSU East Bay and Sonoma State are both lovely campuses, with nice dorms, and very close by; just decide year-by-year what works for her and her health situation.

    Jul 9, 2018

    You sound like you have been dealing with a lot. And as the parent of two teens -- one with lots of struggles -- I think it is fair and good for you to be thinking about these things. However, is is WAY TOO SOON to be making any decisions. And this is not entirely your decision -- I'm not hearing what your daughter wants in here.  Take her to visit colleges if you can -- local ones if you cannot travel. See how things play out next year (her junior year?). Have her apply to ALL THE CHOICES and then decide what's best based on where she gets in and all the many considerations (financial, access to services and support, major, location, career prospects, etc.). Please allow this process to unfold on its own. She is still maturing. She's doing amazingly well in school given the challenges you mention. Does that GPA include Freshman grades? CSU and UC will not look at those. Take a deep breath and understand your daughter will decide in about 18 - 21 months. And even then, things can change. Relax and try to enjoy the ride.

    Jul 9, 2018

    You know you are overthinking this, right? Regardless of what you want, or what you encourage, your daughter is going to have her own opinions, and both her opinions and situation could change between now and college applications. And she has to get accepted into the college of her (or your) dreams.

    That said, college nearby and living on campus sounds like the happy medium between you being nearby if she needs you while still forging her independence. While I realize that the financial realities of the Bay Area and education costs in general means that a lot of kids need to live at home, I think college should be a time to transition to independent living. College dorms are like the training wheels of adult living. My opinions may be colored by having grown up in a rural area and having attended the nearest state school 2 hours from my home in a small town in the middle of nowhere--essentially no one lived at home and commuted.

    Jul 9, 2018

    Hi there!

    I'm going to be a vote encouraging you to go with the affordable option!  There is plenty of evidence that being close to family and connections is valuable (and normal in many cultures), and there is also plenty of evidence that having a big name diploma (and debt) is not worth it in the way it once was.

    I love the book Better than College by Blake Boles... if you're looking for affordable and varied ways to supplement your daughter's independence, skills, and networks... the things that most help young adults be successful in our challenging and rapidly changing world.

    Take care! 

    Jul 9, 2018

    I think it is a tricky decision. To my taste, the American society has this pressure to send the kids away at 18, sometimes 17.It does not make any sense, but it is what it is.

    In my experience, my older boy went to Chico ( the party school) he was not a great student and being away did not help. My daughter went to University of Oregon ( good student but not good enough for UC's- whatever that means...- she left Oregon because the lifestyle and weather, went 1 year to Berkeley City, got accepted for junior year in lots of schools but wanted to remain in Bay Area, graduated with honors from University of San Francisco...all that in 4 years.

    The freshman experience is a bit silly, lots of freedom, alcohol, fun, new friends, great basic classes...Is that worth all that money? personal decision.

    I think it will be better if everyone stays home for 2 more years. At 20 you are a bit more clear of what you want, we all had establish better relationship in the family, the parents can enjoy seeing the kids growing up...at 20 the kid moves out, away, get roommates, challenging classes...and everybody had save a lot of money!

    If the kid is organized and take the required classes for their degree, they can transfer to the UC's

    Good luck!

    Jul 9, 2018

    I feel like you have left out one great option: go to a local community college, then transfer to a UC!

    The overall cost is probably about the same as CSU all through (though I am not sure of that).

    She would get the prestige of graduating from a UC and likely have smaller classes at community college than she would at a CSU.

    Downsides: most of the community colleges don't have much of a campus/student life feeling to them, though the CSUs don't have too much of that either. You might check out Sierra College near Sacramento -- that is a community college with dorms, though it may feel too far away to you. Also, transferring midway means adjusting to a new school, making new friends, etc.

    It sounds like she wants to go to a UC and you want her to stay at home. Having her stay at home for community college and then transfer seems like a good compromise? But if she REALLY wants to go away then I think you should support her (emotionally -- you don't have to spend money on a plan you don't agree with!). And remember, none of the UCs are really that far away from the Bay Area. I have heard great things about UC Riverside in terms of it being smaller, more personal attention, etc.

    Jul 9, 2018

    I would encourage you to consider community colleges as well. My older daughter was admitted to UCs, but ultimately decided to start with community college. She's currently a student at Cabrillo College in Santa Cruz. She is earning good grades, getting the full student experience (all of her roommates are UCSC students), and getting ready to transfer. She'll take 5 years to finish her BA because she had a light course load while she was working, but if a kid's going to take extra time in college then community college is the place to do it! And she'll end up with a UC degree, good life skills, much lower debt, and the confidence that comes from navigating her own path. 

    Jul 10, 2018

    SFSU, Sonoma State, and SJSU all have a significant population of students living in dorms. They are close enough that you can get there when you need to, but your child will have more of a college experience than if they commute. UC Santa Cruz, and UC Davis are also close enough to come home for the weekend if your student wants to be at home.

    If finances are the major issue, then two years of Community College before transferring is possible. However some CC students have trouble moving forward from there.

    You may be surprised at how much your daughter matures between 15 and 17.

    Jul 14, 2018

Archived Q&A and Reviews

Questions

UCSB or UCI for First Gen college bound Eng major student?

April 2014

Daughter was accepted into UCSB and UC Irvine as well as CAL Poly. She is still waiting on a few private school decisions from east coast colleges, and we will visit the strongest contenders this coming week with one UCI/UCSB visit, and then one east coast visit - same week. We'd like to try and figure out as much as possible before leaving, which will lessen our travel time, and ensure I am less ragged for planned surgery upon our return. We are now trying to choose between UCSB and UCI.

She is strongly considering UCSB, with UCI a close second. She has been accepted as an English major, wants to be a writer, and would consider a 2nd major as she fears not being employable with just an English degree. She plans to continue on and get a Ph.D.

So far, we know UCI is known for its writing program, but she feels she will not like the school as much as UCSB - (though she is far from the stereotypical 'California' girl and is concerned about the UCSB party girl image/lifestyle. (Parents are both from other countries. She would like NY first, but was wait-listed at a school there.)

Apparently, UC Irvine is comprised of a very diverse student body and is also as some suggest, a commuter school with many going home on weekends. It is also can be quiet with not much to do on weekends per reviews. Knowing my daughter and her love of glamor, cities, and busy places, I think she would not be happy at Irvine. Most importantly, neither does she - however, she is basing this on peer comments and her online research.

She feels that while she is not into the UCSB drinking/Isla Vista partying that she has read about, she prefers the location of UCSB, the beaches, weather, and community. We would just visit UCSB on Spring break if we could figure this out, and not waste time going to UCI. (UCSB we could drive to - UCI we would probably fly to.) The best of both worlds would be UCI's creative writing program and UCSB's location.

Can anyone speak to these two schools? (She has ruled out CAL Poly due to 'isolated' location.) We have not been to any of the schools yet. We thought we would visit only UCSB if we figured that's the one if she's staying in CA, (we think she will staying for various reasons). I feel guilty not visiting UCI - but she just does not think the location and community sound like a fit for her, and I do not want to waste time.

While I understand it makes more sense to pursue writing at UCI, I also understand she is only 17 and will live there for 4 years, so she needs to like the place she lives in.

Wondering if anyone has looked closely and made comparisons or had a kid who has been on this same path? We are also looking for other advantages of UCSB over UCI such as ability to do a double major, or major/minor, the Eng Lit major, CCS, study abroad, housing, gym, pools, food, accessibility to professors, student support services, etc. Anxious first gen parent

Hi there,

I went to UCI. Yes, it was 20 years ago, but I can tell you my experience. Yes, there is a large commuter component to the student body. I wouldn't say, at the time, that the student body was all that diverse. It was heavily Asian/Caucasian, and divided between the 'hard sciences' types who studied all the time and really didn't socialize, and us liberal arts types (who also studied, but not like the bio or computer sci. folks).

I was in a sorority, so got my social life through the Greek system. Pros: living near the beach (most of us lived the first year in the dorms and the rest in apartments/beach houses). Safe, quiet community, yet lots of students in the most popular housing areas. Plenty of parties on the weekend in Newport. If we needed more 'excitement' we went up to Hollywood or down to Tijuana.

The friends I know from high school who went to UCSB all flamed out from partying too much and transferred, but I know that's not true of all UCSB students. Less chance of that at UCI, though, I'd think. WC Mom

Our daughter is a senior at UCSB in English. Despite the craziness of Isla Vista, we would recommend the school.

Our daughter went to an academically competitive private high school where the quality of the teaching was superb, but she did not make many friends. UCSB has been the antidote for this; our daughter is surrounded with her fellow/sister students plus people she has met in the surrounding community in her volunteer activities.

Academically, it is still the University of California and the standards are high. Our daughter has been inspired by her professors and is motivated to work hard and get good grades.

The most amazing part of the social scene, to me as a parent looking on, is that the ethnic diversity represented. In our daughter's living groups, there have been whites, Latinos, Asian Americans, Armenians, Middle Easterners, and African Americans. The young people study and party together with little or no attention paid to race or socioeconomic status.

The natural beauty of the beaches and mountains are breathtaking. It is an even more lovely natural setting than the increasingly overbuilt UC Berkeley.

If a student tends to be an addictive personality or could be thrown off track by exposure to drinking and drugs, I would say ''beware''. There is a lot of substance use in I.V. and that cannot be denied. Our daughter has done her share of this, but she seems to have established proper limits for herself.

Another downside to the UCSB area is that there are few jobs. If your student qualifies for a work study job on campus, that would be great. Except that our daughter was initially told that she could get work study, and then the university reneged on the offer. Most of the jobs involve food service or bars, and we advised her not to work in the latter. There are plenty of drunks in I.V. already.

There have also been some issues with campus assaults. You might want to look into it. But whenever we have been there, the student population density is so high that it is hard to imagine how it could be unsafe; there are crowds of students coming and going at any time of the day or night.

Our daughter and her parents agree that if she had to make the college choice again, she would certainly choose UCSB. Gaucho Mom

Hi: A bit about me: I am a graduate of UCSB. I have taught college (music production) and worked as an academic advisor to college students. My experience with college students is that the most important factor for success is that they are happy. There is no such thing as a ''better'' school, only one that is a better fit. And often it is all of the non-college aspects of the experience that determine how much a student thrives. If she feels like she would enjoy and be more comfortable at UCSB, that would be my recommendation. It is a top-notch university if you keep focused.

Having gone there, the party scene is indeed real (as it is everywhere), but she sounds like she can navigate it well by steering clear of it (that's what I did). I would recommend considering living in SB proper (not Isla Vista).

Let me know if you have any questions. Best, Peter

If it is at all possible, please visit each campus while students are there (i.e., not during Spring Break). If the campus life is important to your daughter, she has to see what it looks and feels like.

I have never been to UCI, but UCSB is a major party school, despite their attempts to claim otherwise. There IS absolutely a party and ''hook up'' culture there and while you can certainly opt out of it, the vast majority of other kids are opting in. The weather is amazing and the setting is beautiful, but it is also very isolated from the real world and other people. The campus is literally on the beach, as are many of the apartments, and Isla Vista is probably about 90% college kids (mostly white) age 18-24. UCSB is NOT in Santa Barbara, which is about 15-20 minutes away by car, and Santa Barbara itself is a fairly sleepy town.

When I took my daughter to visit colleges, we had completely different impressions of most of the schools. She loved it, I didn't, or vice versa. I went to UCSB many years ago without ever visiting it and knew the minute I set foot on campus that it was the wrong place for me. When I took my daughter to visit as a high school senior, she fell instantly in love with it and is very happy being there now. Please give your daughter the chance to see both campuses and decide for herself. Gaucho mama

Less than stellar grades - is UC an option?

March 2013

My son, a BHS student, and young for his class, is finally getting better grades now that he is in his junior year. I expect he may end up with a 3.2 or 3.3. A UC is most likely out of reach for him, so he is thinking about business at some of the following CSUs: Fullerton, Northridge & San Diego.

One of the things that has been consistent from childhood and beyond is that he is a good actor and has been involved in lots of local theatre and has done some film work and voice-overs as well. He would like to keep that up in college. He did like UC Irvine when we visited for a sibling, which does have theatre, but the question is, with his acting, would he have any hope of getting in? Would love any feedback on the above schools as well, and if you have a child attending that would be willing to chat with my son, we would be so grateful. Please mail me directly. Thanks very much!

Hi there! I was a little confused by your question. Your son is going to have a 3.2/3.3 GPA and you think he will probably end up at a CSU. That's likely, but he should try the UC application process just in case.

So are you wondering if his acting skills would help him get into a UC? I think you should be checking with the drama departments to see about that. For example, at UCLA, there is an audition process for their drama department. I don't know whether being accepted into the drama department means you can get accepted to the school, however. In other words, the drama department may love you, but I don't know if that means UCLA will automatically let you in the door for a degree. So: ask the departments yourself, to make sure you get the best information. You might also be able to find this out online on the colleges' and departments' websites.

And as an aside, my daughter is a drama major at SJSU and very happy there

Considering Cal Poly and UCSC - really graduate in 4 years?

April 2011

My son has been accepted to a variety of schools and we are now wondering which schools of the ones he likes will be the most economical. Does anyone out there know if you can really get your classes and graduate at CalPoly and/or UC Santa Cruz in 4 years? He has been accepted to a few privates with aid but they run a bit over the UC tuition for us, so it wouldn't be worthwhile unless the others really don't let a student get the classes needed to graduate. CalPoly would be the cheapest and he likes it, and he could take some city college classes in the summer. I'm just wondering if it's hype or true or not, and if anyone has experience with these two schools in particular.

Our well-respected private college counselor told us to expect it to take five years if our son selected a UC or CSU school. I don't have any other experience, but wanted to share her opinion. We are taking it seriously. Remember that much of this worry is due to current and expected budget cuts, so the experience of kids just who graduated, for instance, may not be as relevant. They attended under a different budgetary situation. Best of luck with it. It sure doesn't make the decision any easier! Anne

YES. Your son can definitely graduate in 4 years from either UC Santa Cruz or Cal Poly SLO. This is a reasonable question given the horrible budget reductions looming at both UC and CSU. But Santa Cruz and Cal Poly are still great deals and the students lucky enough to be admitted will get excellent educations.

UC has a very good record on graduation rate and time-to-degree. At UC overall, the majority of students graduate in 4 years or 4 year plus one quarter and 80% graduate in 5 years or less. For students who take longer than 4 years, the issue is generally not an inability to get classes but rather a desire to take more classes than the minimum needed--for example because a student is completing a double major, is taking additional courses to help prepare for graduate work, or was away from the campus for a term or more studying abroad or whatever. This is not to say that individual students don't have frustrating moments trying to get into a needed course. (I'm sure at least one UC parent will write in with a horror story.) But students who persevere (register for classes early, put themselves on waiting lists, appeal to professors, and try again if closed out the first time) and are flexible (willing to take an 8:00 a.m class!) can generally get what they need.

At CSU, the picture is a little different: courses can be tough to get into, graduation rates are much lower, and many people take longer. But Cal Poly is not a typical CSU--its stats look a lot like a UC campus. There are a number of factors at work here: the drive and preparation levels of students matters a lot and they tend to be high at UC and at specialized CSU campuses like Cal Poly; additionally the culture at private institutions and UC/Cal Poly has an expectation that students will graduate in 4 years (less true at many CSUs). And don't forget the price effect: data shows that the more expensive an institution is, the more motivated students (and their parents!) are to finish on time.

My guess is that unless you are getting great financial aid offers from the private institutions you're looking at, UC or (especially) Cal Poly will be less expensive. And the best way to ensure your son does well in school is to send him to the place he really wants to go. Congratulations on having these options--as budget reductions shrink the size of public education in California, they will be available to fewer and fewer students. Higher Ed expert

Our student is graduating within 4 years at UCSC. It means being on top of your requirements. If necessary taking summer classes or student abroad options for credit will help add up the necessary credits. But when you consider the difference in tuition at a UC over private ''splurging'' on a summer abroad course may be affordable as well as a great experience.

Will this get harder? Anyone's guess. But if you read catalogs carefully you will find it is also fairly common to take 5 years at a private school which may also have many requirements and not offer enough sections to cover the demand. At $35 to $50K per year - that is an even bigger ''ouch'' if money is a consideration. Depending on the private school and how rigid the degree you still need to stay on top of the requirements to graduate.

UCSC students can take classes at any UC in the summer ( unless this changes )- even Berkeley - and there are transfer options within the UC system if Santa Cruz is not his first choice. Though Santa Cruz is a stunning Campus and the Administrators and Staff provide a lot of service. Read over the website carefully for all the options and requirements. Good luck. Banana Slug MOM

Curious about rankings for the UCs

April 2010

Hello, I recently read a letter in the Teens Newsletter that referred to UC San Diego as a ''mid tier UC'' campus. This made me wonder (I've been out of college for *many* years!) - how does one find out about the ''rankings'' of the various UC campuses? Even State colleges? Which UC campuses are ''top tier'', if UCSD is ''mid tier''? What are the other ''mid tier'' UC's? And, mostly, where is this information derived from? Thanks much for the assistance. Curious about UC rankings

Rankings depend on what the campus is being ranked on. Berkeley and UCLA are usually the hardest to get in to, while Riverside and Merced are the easiest to get into, so UCSD etc are in the middle. That might be one ranking.

Another way might be some measure of faculty quality, student faculty ratio, social engagement, funding, etc. You can look at various things online for students thinking of applying.

I think it is best to match the student to the kinds of majors, the atmosphere, whether or not they have friends there, extracurricular opportunities, cost, etc, rather than by some sort of ranking. Also, students will have a very different experience in college and afterwards depending on the major they choose, and that is more important than one UC.

Here at Cal, the forestry major and other small majors provide more opportunity to interact with faculty and other students, while larger majors could be alienating for some students. Clubs and extracurricular activities can also provide a student with a home. In almost any major you are able, with planning, to fulfill the requirements for the graduate or professional career of your choice, including law and medicine. My undergrad major at UCSD was obscure and had 2 students in it. I am friends with faculty members there to this day, and now I am a professor in an unrelated topic at UCB. My doctor majored in French Literature. Pick the place your kid will like. been there

It really depends on the department. At some of the less prestigious UCs the departments are higher ranked than at the more prestigious ones. Also, just because a department is ranked top in the UCs doesn't mean it's number one for undergraduates. The faculty might get the most grants and have the most awards, but percentage wise, only a small number of undergraduates may go on to top ranked graduate schools. In fact, it may only be at the graduate level that the department lives up to its rank. Anon